Do you feel more or less patriotic since the EU Referendum ?

[glennpickard]

To Justin Smith's point, the Brexit vote should be a catalyst for rewriting and changing of the current rules, or more and more objections are going to surface. This could lead to a much bigger fissure than they have now.

 

The EU leaders have been given this opening but will they be smart enough to grab the opportunity ? They should move quickly to find solutions, by quickly I mean before the UK gives formal notice.

Junker and the French government may not be amenable, but they should be pressured by some of the main players including Germany. And by solutions I mean moving back towards a trade block, without all the political and free movement baggage that has been accumulated over the past 20 years by various groups .

There would still be people movement, but primarily related to job/business/education requirements, similar to that between Canada and the USA

[*_ash_*]

The question is why nothing was made of the limitation to claiming benefits (that had recently been agreed) during the Referendum campaign ? To be frank I think the Remain campaign was absolutely useless from start to finish, they just kept banging on about the economy, forgetting that the two major groups* voting to leave were not as receptive to that message. In fact the remain campaign was so poor it`s somewhat surprising that the result was actually quite close......

 

Bold - Probably because it was ridiculous in the scheme/scale of things, and most people could probably see through it. (it's an obvious vote-winning tactic - something that clearly didn't work)

 

Yes, there are a group of people who think people just come here for benefits, however, most people I think realised what you said in the earlier post, so I'll bring it up again, since I pointed this out way way before the ref. That people come here to work because even rubbish pay is around 5 times less rubbish than in many countries.

 

Even if the benefit system was completely removed, people from those countries would still have come here to work.

 

Your groups * are a bit misleading, what about the masses of working class people who work (not retired) who voted to leave, are they really classed as 'poorer people' to you ?

I work in manufacturing, in a company that employs several hundred people, I know of only one person who intended to vote Remain, and I spoke to many.

 

He can't see other than black or white, that's why.

[woahthere]

Your groups * are a bit misleading, what about the masses of working class people who work (not retired) who voted to leave, are they really classed as 'poorer people' to you ?

I work in manufacturing, in a company that employs several hundred people, I know of only one person who intended to vote Remain, and I spoke to many.

 

Tbf you've written posts on here in the past generalising remainers as middle class leftie luvvies who haven't been affected financially by migrants.

 

You once said that most brexiters have probably had their wages kept down by migration.

 

It's not a great leap then to suggest that you think that remainers are generally financially better off than brexiters.

 

Doesn't do anyone - and I include myself in this as I'm guilty of it too - any good to generalise.

[Guest]

generally better educated and/or middle class people tended to vote Remain

 

Not because voting remain was the more virtuous, wise or correct thing to do for the country as a whole, but because they tend to have a personal vested interest in Britain's EU membership, and don't live in Pagehall etc. Selfish really.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Guest

[Santo]

Not because voting remain was the more virtuous, wise or correct thing to do for the country as a whole, but because they tend to have a personal vested interest in Britain's EU membership, and don't live in Pagehall etc. Selfish really.

 

By that logic if you live in Page Hall and voted Brexit you were just as selfish because most of the country don't.

[Michael_W]

Tbf you've written posts on here in the past generalising remainers as middle class leftie luvvies who haven't been affected financially by migrants.

 

You once said that most brexiters have probably had their wages kept down by migration.

 

It's not a great leap then to suggest that you think that remainers are generally financially better off than brexiters.

 

Doesn't do anyone - and I include myself in this as I'm guilty of it too - any good to generalise.

 

Well spotted sir, that I will not deny, may I ask who or what was your previous Forum persona

What I will say with regards to my post, is that, many working class people are not strictly speaking 'poor' are they, my point being in response to Justin Smiths sentence:

 

* Older people, they`re on a pension anyway so to some extent insulated from the state of the economy. And poorer people who don`t think things could be any worse anyway so what have they got to lose ?

 

There is of course a generalisation about educated people and the middle classes (as if that makes their Remain vote more valid), however in my experience many working class people are just as savvy and indeed often more so on many matters, and they have not had to endure the brainwashing by our ever so socialist education system

[Justin Smith]

Bold - Probably because it was ridiculous in the scheme/scale of things, and most people could probably see through it. (it's an obvious vote-winning tactic - something that clearly didn't work)

 

Yes, there are a group of people who think people just come here for benefits, however, most people I think realised what you said in the earlier post, so I'll bring it up again, since I pointed this out way way before the ref. That people come here to work because even rubbish pay is around 5 times less rubbish than in many countries.

 

Even if the benefit system was completely removed, people from those countries would still have come here to work.

 

He can't see other than black or white, that's why.

 

I`m not having that. All the pollsters, incl the BBC`s coverage on the night, were reporting that Remain voters were more likley to be younger, more educated and better off, and Leave supporters the opposite. Of course it`s a generalisation, but it was actually pretty accurate because Newcastle, one of the first results, was predicted to comfortably be a Remain result* but was actually pretty close, and they then went on to extrapolate that the night could indeed be bad for Remain.

 

* Partly because of its age and education profile.

 

On the subject of people coming here to work because our wages are 5 times higher than in their home countries, that is simplistic because the cost of living is probably 4 times higher. Who cares anyway, just so long as they come here to work ? I certainly don`t. There are a hell of a lot of British people who aren't prepared to work, or at least not unless they`re paid what they think they`re worth, which, I have to say, is often very far from reality........

Edited October 27, 2016 by Justin Smith

[phil752]

I`m not having that. All the pollsters, incl the BBC`s coverage on the night, were reporting that Remain voters were more likley to be younger, more educated and better off, and Leave supporters the opposite. Of course it`s a generalisation, but it was actually pretty accurate because Newcastle, one of the first results, was predicted to comfortably be a Remain result* but was actually pretty close, and they then went on to extrapolate that the night could indeed be bad for Remain.

 

* Partly because of its age and education profile.

 

On the subject of people coming here to work because our wages are 5 times higher than in their home countries, that is simplistic because the cost of living is probably 4 times higher. Who cares anyway, just so long as they come here to work ? I certainly don`t. There are a hell of a lot of British people who aren't prepared to work, or at least not unless they`re paid what they think they`re worth, which, I have to say, is often very far from reality........

 

That a big generalisation, you are saying that 17 Million people who voted out were less well off, poorly educated, out of work or retired, as i remember, it was well into the night before they thought, out would be successful . Even Nigel had virtually thrown the towel in and that was well into the night.

[woahthere]

Well spotted sir, that I will not deny, may I ask who or what was your previous Forum persona

What I will say with regards to my post, is that, many working class people are not strictly speaking 'poor' are they, my point being in response to Justin Smiths sentence:

 

* Older people, they`re on a pension anyway so to some extent insulated from the state of the economy. And poorer people who don`t think things could be any worse anyway so what have they got to lose ?

 

There is of course a generalisation about educated people and the middle classes (as if that makes their Remain vote more valid), however in my experience many working class people are just as savvy and indeed often more so on many matters, and they have not had to endure the brainwashing by our ever so socialist education system

 

No former persona I signed up just prior to the referendum. Your posts were made during this time.

 

I understand the point you're making. Hopefully you see my point that generalising remain voters as all being financially secure, middle class, latte drinkers is also misleading.

 

Glad you put the winking emoji after that socialist education bit. I almost thought you meant it.

[Justin Smith]

Since reading the other days front page headlines on the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun, then hearing no criticism of them from the Government at all, I feel even less patriotism for this country than I did before. I`d almost say I don`t recognise this country any more, and all for something that comparatively few people were that bothered about as recently as the last election (UKIP got 12.6% of the vote). I was looking at some research which said the EU was only an important issue for about 15% of the electorate..... Of course some will say that immigration was in third place, but more than half of immigration was/is from non EU countries, and anyway, Leave constantly maintain that the Referendum "wasn`t just about immigration".

Edited November 7, 2016 by Justin Smith