Supertram future- consultation

[truman]

How does it work when people turn up for football in Glasgow?

 

Don't they have an "underground" in Glasgow?

[Longcol]

Don't they have an "underground" in Glasgow?

 

Yes - but only a small one round the city centre - Ibrox (Rangers) is served by it but not Celtic Park.

[ECCOnoob]

If the tram network to close that would be the final nail in the coffin in terms of viewing Sheffield seriously as a place for businesses to thrive. It features in nearly all promotional material for the city!

 

Can you imagine thousands of people turning up from other cities, wanting to go to a football match or a concert at the arena, and being told the tram had closed, and they'd have to get a combination of local buses?! Absolutely ludicrous.

 

In an age where many other cities are looking to develop and enhance their public transport network, Sheffield are sending out dubiously misguiding consultations that seemed aimed at getting rid of theirs!

 

It really does beggar belief, and if allowed to happened will be part of the continued decline of the City in relation to others.

 

I totally disagree.

 

Taking a step away from the knee jerk reactionary approach I actually think that a consultation IS a good idea.

 

We are talking about an investment of millions of pounds to upgrade the network with a very vague proposal about expansion. We are talking about hugely complex and disruptive engineering works which on our terrain does not easily suit long, straight, flat trackworks that most other high capacity light rail has the luxury of having.

 

Is it really so far fetched to ask the question about whether people want it or consider whether 30 years on there are other alternatives which are more future proof.

 

For all the benefits of the tram, the fact is that there are huge areas of the city which are not only not covered directly by the tram but are significant miles away from its nearest stop. That's not just a small amount of the population outside its catchment but whole areas.

 

In several areas the tram is slow, gets caught up in traffic and causes mayhem when it breaks down. For me personally, the choice between a 5 minute train journey or 25+ minute tram ride between Sheffield - Meadowhall is a no brainer.

 

Similarly at rush hour I would be just as quick (if not quicker) getting a bus between Hillsborough and the city.

 

Removal and replace is not necessarilly backwards as some seem to think.

Edited September 28, 2018 by ECCOnoob

[Guest busdriver1]

How does it work when people turn up for football in Glasgow?

 

Very large fleets of buses are used to and from a variety of central and easily accessible points. Seems to work.

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2018 at 19:54 ----------

 

I totally disagree.

 

Taking a step away from the knee jerk reactionary approach I actually think that a consultation IS a good idea.

 

We are talking about an investment of millions of pounds to upgrade the network with a very vague proposal about expansion. We are talking about hugely complex and disruptive engineering works which on our terrain does not easily suit long, straight, flat trackworks that most other high capacity light rail has the luxury of having.

 

Is it really so far fetched to ask the question about whether people want it or consider whether 30 years on there are other alternatives which are more future proof.

 

For all the benefits of the tram, the fact is that there are huge areas of the city which are not only not covered directly by the tram but are significant miles away from its nearest stop. That's not just a small amount of the population outside its catchment but whole areas.

 

In several areas the tram is slow, gets caught up in traffic and causes mayhem when it breaks down. For me personally, the choice between a 5 minute train journey or 25+ minute tram ride between Sheffield - Meadowhall is a no brainer.

 

Similarly at rush hour I would be just as quick (if not quicker) getting a bus between Hillsborough and the city.

 

Removal and replace is not necessarilly backwards as some seem to think.

 

To be honest I can see a case where removing the tram system could be a major factor in encouraging investment in the area. Removing the traffic restrictions whose sole purpose is to speed up the trams and slow down everything else would be od massive benefit to the area.

[Penistone999]

Wonder if it goes belly up ,the council will sell it for a Quid ?

[Dromedary]

 

Is it really so far fetched to ask the question about whether people want it or consider whether 30 years on there are other alternatives which are more future proof.

 

Such as? I dont think the survey actually mentions any alternatives. How many buses would it take to replace the passenger capacity of the tram network? How often will they also need replacing? How much extra pollution would that cause? How much extra traffic will that be?

 

 

Removal and replace is not necessarilly backwards as some seem to think.

 

Its not so much about being backwards I think but how cost effective it would be. Taking into account my earlier question as to how much taking up the rails etc and relaying the roads they are now on would cost. I think this is just an exercise in trying to guarantee new funding from the outrage made of abandoning it. It seems odd that other countries are investing in tram systems and yet we want to get rid.

[ECCOnoob]

Such as? I dont think the survey actually mentions any alternatives. How many buses would it take to replace the passenger capacity of the tram network? How often will they also need replacing? How much extra pollution would that cause? How much extra traffic will that be?

 

I dont know. I guess that's what a consultation and proposal would be for.

 

Perhaps they might consider something which benefits the whole city area rather than just a limited selection.

 

If we are talking about long term future considerations "alternatives" to solve our transport problems that could mean anything from electric vehicles to ride sharing to improvements to cycling to less travelling and more home working to reopening existing (but unused) railways to hovercrafts.

 

Who knows? The point is there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking the Question of whether it is a good investment long term to spend a hell of a lot of money on modernising a tram system that may still only end up serving the needs of a limited percentage of the city population.

 

 

 

 

Its not so much about being backwards I think but how cost effective it would be. Taking into account my earlier question as to how much taking up the rails etc and relaying the roads they are now on would cost. I think this is just an exercise in trying to guarantee new funding from the outrage made of abandoning it. It seems odd that other countries are investing in tram systems and yet we want to get rid.

 

I suspect I would cost a lot less than having build new tram infrastructure and a brand new fleet of vehicles.

 

You are right, many other cities and countries are investing in light rail, but that does not necessarilly mean it has to be or is even the right method for our city going forward. We have a very challenging landscape which has been a big problem when building anything from subways to road networks. For all the talk of mass expansion, the fact remains there is little room for it to go. Just look at a chaos it caused with Hillsborough to build. Can we really imagine the supertram trundling its way along London Road or Woodseats or Burngreave or all the way up to High Green and Grenoside.

 

I am not saying whether it should be removed one way or another. What I am saying is that questions should at least be asked if the money should be spent on something better.

 

A lot can change in 30 years. Population numbers, primary locations, working habits, commuting habits, footfall and traffic. Sticking with the status quo is not necessarilly always right

Edited September 28, 2018 by ECCOnoob

[The Joker]

To be honest I can see a case where removing the tram system could be a major factor in encouraging investment in the area. Removing the traffic restrictions whose sole purpose is to speed up the trams and slow down everything else would be od massive benefit to the area.

 

As a motorist, I agree this is a very good idea.

 

Could we also get rid of the bus lanes for the same reasons please ?

[paula4sheff]

I totally disagree.

 

Taking a step away from the knee jerk reactionary approach I actually think that a consultation IS a good idea.

 

We are talking about an investment of millions of pounds to upgrade the network with a very vague proposal about expansion. We are talking about hugely complex and disruptive engineering works which on our terrain does not easily suit long, straight, flat trackworks that most other high capacity light rail has the luxury of having.

 

Is it really so far fetched to ask the question about whether people want it or consider whether 30 years on there are other alternatives which are more future proof.

 

For all the benefits of the tram, the fact is that there are huge areas of the city which are not only not covered directly by the tram but are significant miles away from its nearest stop. That's not just a small amount of the population outside its catchment but whole areas.

 

In several areas the tram is slow, gets caught up in traffic and causes mayhem when it breaks down. For me personally, the choice between a 5 minute train journey or 25+ minute tram ride between Sheffield - Meadowhall is a no brainer.

 

Similarly at rush hour I would be just as quick (if not quicker) getting a bus between Hillsborough and the city.

 

Removal and replace is not necessarilly backwards as some seem to think.

 

 

If the 'replacement' is more buses and cars on the road then obviously it's an awful idea form an environmental and congestion point of view.

 

It's pretty telling that other cities are expanding their tram networks to cut down om heae hings.....but Sheffield might get rid of theirs.

 

I genuinely can't see one way losing the tram network could ever be a positive thing.

 

The consultation, as others have mentioned, looks to be a bit of a farce....

 

---------- Post added 29-09-2018 at 04:53 ----------

 

As a motorist, I agree this is a very good idea.

 

Could we also get rid of the bus lanes for the same reasons please ?

 

Perhaps pedestrian crossings could go too?

[The Joker]

Perhaps pedestrian crossings could go too?

 

Along with traffic lights, then you wouldn’t criticise me for jumping them