Supertram future- consultation

[arrowhead]

Do you seriously not think that the people who plan and design the tram toutes don't understand the traffic flows?

 

They have multi modal traffic models of the whole area which are based on real traffic surveys and roadside interviews. They therefore understand the volume of trips and the reasons for them.

 

Consultation is just that. They want to understand people's views. The final decisions may not be what you asked for. They can't please everyone.

 

Any line that runs past lots of open land is not going to be viable. There needs to be a good population within 400m ( Which is generally considered to be as far as people will walk to public transport) of the line for it to be viable.

 

J33 is too far from Sheffield centre to be a viable park and ride and is way too far away from Doncaster.

 

100%. Having lived and worked in 3 other major cities of the UK, my conclusion is Sheffield's road planning is done by a troop of monkeys.

[Michael_N]

Do you seriously not think that the people who plan and design the tram toutes don't understand the traffic flows?

 

Of course it wasn't designed properly. It was based on 1970s/1980s travel patterns and what was even more bizarre was the fact how it was routed along Infirmary Road (beside Kelvin Flats) and through Norfolk Park along Park Grange Road, to have all these high-rise flats and high-density residential areas vacated and eventually bulldozed. Very clever planning from Sheffield City Council that one! :hihi:

 

J33 is too far from Sheffield centre to be a viable park and ride and is way too far away from Doncaster.

 

Well in that case, should we rip up Meadowhall/Ikea/Valley Centertainment as they will be too far away from the city centre? Nunnery Square must be one of the most pointless P&Rs in the entire country, you even have to drive to Park Square to come back on yourself... :loopy:

[BigAl1]

100%. Having lived and worked in 3 other major cities of the UK, my conclusion is Sheffield's road planning is done by a troop of monkeys.

 

Please remember monkeys have feelings

[Hook]

Of course it wasn't designed properly. It was based on 1970s/1980s travel patterns and what was even more bizarre was the fact how it was routed along Infirmary Road (beside Kelvin Flats) and through Norfolk Park along Park Grange Road, to have all these high-rise flats and high-density residential areas vacated and eventually bulldozed. Very clever planning from Sheffield City Council that one! :hihi:

 

 

 

Well in that case, should we rip up Meadowhall/Ikea/Valley Centertainment as they will be too far away from the city centre? Nunnery Square must be one of the most pointless P&Rs in the entire country, you even have to drive to Park Square to come back on yourself... :loopy:

 

Spot on - it’s just completely illogical.

[BigAl1]

Do you seriously not think that the people who plan and design the tram toutes don't understand the traffic flows?

 

They have multi modal traffic models of the whole area which are based on real traffic surveys and roadside interviews. They therefore understand the volume of trips and the reasons for them.

 

Consultation is just that. They want to understand people's views. The final decisions may not be what you asked for. They can't please everyone.

 

Any line that runs past lots of open land is not going to be viable. There needs to be a good population within 400m ( Which is generally considered to be as far as people will walk to public transport) of the line for it to be viable.

 

J33 is too far from Sheffield centre to be a viable park and ride and is way too far away from Doncaster.

 

Just had a look at Wikipedia and this is part of what they say and it makes interesting reading

 

Upon opening, the network was operated by South Yorkshire Supertram Limited,[7] which was a originally wholly owned subsidiary company of SYPTE established to run the venture. The early years of the Supertram were not straightforward; in the eyes of some officials, the scheme was reportedly viewed as having been a failure. Running in direct competition with cheaper and more frequent buses, far greater numbers of passengers chose to continue commuting by means other than the fledgling tram network; retailers also frequently complained due to the disruption caused by the lengthy construction works performed while establishing the Supertram network.[8] The complex ticketing system originally adopted has also been attributed as having being a source of irritance and confusion to would-be passengers.[2]

 

Within the first two years of operations, it became clear that the projections for passenger numbers had been overly optimistic, while there was concern that the system represented poor value for money and did not seem to be gaining traction.[8] Thus, the issue of what party should bear the cost became a politicised matter. Allegedly, by 1996, the councils backing the Supertram had recognised that the operation had both operational and managerial problems which required addressing, thus consultants were asked to draw up options for the system's reorganisation into a more commercially-viable venture, including the franchising of Supertram and its wholesale selling-off.[

[Vasquez Rich]

I know for certain that whoever planned the supertram routes did not understand the traffic flow in my area.

 

We were told that the tram route along Ridgeway Road "would greatly alleviate the traffic and pollution on that stretch of the ringroad".

 

The locals (that included myself) undertook a survey of the traffic on Ridgeway Road, at Manor Top by asking each of 3 cars at the lights, when the lights were on red, where they were coming from and going to.

 

At Manor Top, the vast majority of traffic was headed across the junction and down Prince of Wales Road. The traffic heading into town was going up Mansfield Road and down City Road, likewise at Townend the traffic headed into town was going across and down Gleadless Road.

 

The tram did absolutely nothing to alleviate traffic along Ridgeway Road. That tells me 2 things:

 

1 The Planners knew sod all

2 They ignored local information

 

more likely:

3 both the above

 

Somebody will tell me I am wrong no doubt.

[MobileB]

 

J33 is too far from Sheffield centre to be a viable park and ride

 

You obviously never go up and down the parkway each morning and evening then! Fortunately, I go the other way out and in but if you think regular stacks back to Catcliffe in a morning and to Handsworth form J33 is a good then so be it! And it is like that every day of the week (even when kids are on holiday!!)

[Annie Bynnol]

I know for certain that whoever planned the supertram routes did not understand the traffic flow in my area.

 

We were told that the tram route along Ridgeway Road "would greatly alleviate the traffic and pollution on that stretch of the ringroad".

 

The locals (that included myself) undertook a survey of the traffic on Ridgeway Road, at Manor Top by asking each of 3 cars at the lights, when the lights were on red, where they were coming from and going to.

 

At Manor Top, the vast majority of traffic was headed across the junction and down Prince of Wales Road. The traffic heading into town was going up Mansfield Road and down City Road, likewise at Townend the traffic headed into town was going across and down Gleadless Road.

 

The tram did absolutely nothing to alleviate traffic along Ridgeway Road. That tells me 2 things:

 

1 The Planners knew sod all

2 They ignored local information

 

more likely:

3 both the above

 

Somebody will tell me I am wrong no doubt.

 

 

Could you please clarify a few points.

 

How many thousands of car drivers did you ask?

Over how many months?

Over how many hours each day?

 

Was the survey done before or after the Supertram was built?

What were you results before/after the tram was built?

 

Why were other road users not asked?

Why were local users not considered?

 

Is it your conclusion that the traffic has stayed the same despite Supertram?

 

Are the results of a 30 year old survey still valid for the current consultation?

[BigAl1]

Could you please clarify a few points.

 

 

 

Are the results of a 30 year old survey still valid for the current consultation?

 

I wonder from what I posted above from Wikipedia if the consultation was even valid at the time.

 

having said that only robust market research and analysis of the situation today will help in decision making today for the future but sadly having seen the consultation questionnaire I have little confidence

[Bargepole23]

I know for certain that whoever planned the supertram routes did not understand the traffic flow in my area.

 

We were told that the tram route along Ridgeway Road "would greatly alleviate the traffic and pollution on that stretch of the ringroad".

 

The locals (that included myself) undertook a survey of the traffic on Ridgeway Road, at Manor Top by asking each of 3 cars at the lights, when the lights were on red, where they were coming from and going to.

 

At Manor Top, the vast majority of traffic was headed across the junction and down Prince of Wales Road. The traffic heading into town was going up Mansfield Road and down City Road, likewise at Townend the traffic headed into town was going across and down Gleadless Road.

 

The tram did absolutely nothing to alleviate traffic along Ridgeway Road. That tells me 2 things:

 

1 The Planners knew sod all

2 They ignored local information

 

more likely:

3 both the above

 

Somebody will tell me I am wrong no doubt.

 

Not much of a sample size.

 

That tells me 1 thing:

 

1 You know sod all about traffic surveys