Can I carry gardening tools in public?

[shims]

If you're not allowed to carry certain things in public, getting them from the shop to the car could be problematic.

 

For instance If I were to buy a samurai sword (and I wouldn't because I'm not a samurai and never do any samurai-ing at all) I'd have to park the car outside the Samurai Outfitters with a window down and ask the proprietor to hurl the weapon into the car from the shop doorway so as to avoid the prohibited carry. That could cut the upholstery or maybe sever a passing pedestrian's head on its trajectory so I think it's only sensible that carrying samurai swords in public should be mandatory.

[Bonzo77]

If you're not allowed to carry certain things in public, getting them from the shop to the car could be problematic.

 

For instance If I were to buy a samurai sword (and I wouldn't because I'm not a samurai and never do any samurai-ing at all) I'd have to park the car outside the Samurai Outfitters with a window down and ask the proprietor to hurl the weapon into the car from the shop doorway so as to avoid the prohibited carry. That could cut the upholstery or maybe sever a passing pedestrian's head on its trajectory so I think it's only sensible that carrying samurai swords in public should be mandatory.

 

I'm thinking that samurai sales professionals should have to pass a test which allows them to take said sward from the store to your car.

However, transporting the sward from your car to your home may prove difficult, unless said professional travels with you and incorporates the price of a taxi back to the store within the price of the sward?

 

Am I over thinking this?

[shims]

I'm thinking that samurai sales professionals should have to pass a test which allows them to take said sward from the store to your car.

However, transporting the sward from your car to your home may prove difficult, unless said professional travels with you and incorporates the price of a taxi back to the store within the price of the sward?

 

Am I over thinking this?

Under if anything...

[El Cid]

I'm thinking that samurai sales professionals should have to pass a test which allows them to take said sward from the store to your car.

However, transporting the sward from your car to your home may prove difficult, unless said professional travels with you and incorporates the price of a taxi back to the store within the price of the sward?

 

Am I over thinking this?

 

People carrying dangerous weapons as part of their job could wear some sort of uniform that tells the police they are carrying out a task and are not dangerous.

 

A red wig and big shoes

[Cyclone]

I've been looking through some other cases and it does seem a very oddly contested and disputed area (the definition of a folding knife).

 

Back to your point...

If it requires more movements to achieve a fully closed (folded) position, how is that immediately foldable?

It depends on the definition of "immediate" I suppose.

A regular (single movement) folding knife still takes time to fold, it requires physical effort and movement. The key is that the folding can be started without any other action first (or so I would argue).

The same applies to the leather man in question, the folding operation can be started immediately, it takes time to do, but the blade is never locked in an extended position by a mechanism that prevents the start of the folding operation.

You say that there is no mechanism that stops it folding yet the pivoted handle obstructs the blade and must be moved out of the way first in order to fold the blade away.

To finish folding it away, not to start the process, it is simply part of the process of folding, not a mechanism of locking.

Would you be able to immediately enter a room if there was an object obstructing your entry? Or would you have to move it out of the way first?

Does a door handle attached to a latch stop you entering a room, or is it simply part of the mechanism of opening a door?

 

Like I said, I think it's a silly point to argue anyway, the blade may not be able to fold away immediately but it's hardly locked in place or held rigidly, to make it an effective stabbing weapon.

Section 139 makes no mention of folding knives having to be immediately foldable so I suspect it's more to do with the prosecution arguing the toss.

Absolutely, these things always come down to two barristers and a judge setting a precedent because the law isn't clear.

[Obelix]

Case law though says otherwise, as referenced further up the thread. The blade has to be immediately foldable which is taken as meaning it can be fully closed. If it stops on something halfway theres a problem.

[RootsBooster]

It depends on the definition of "immediate" I suppose.

A regular (single movement) folding knife still takes time to fold, it requires physical effort and movement.

I would say it means that the action can be carried out from start to finish without any preparation or other actions in between

The key is that the folding can be started without any other action first (or so I would argue).

The same applies to the leather man in question, the folding operation can be started immediately, it takes time to do, but the blade is never locked in an extended position by a mechanism that prevents the start of the folding operation.

To finish folding it away, not to start the process, it is simply part of the process of folding, not a mechanism of locking.

I do find it a bit odd that you think "immediately" would only apply to the beginning of the process, I would hate to think that an immediate response from emergency services would only apply at the start!

 

*Paramedics immediately get into ambulance, then have a sandwich*

 

Does a door handle attached to a latch stop you entering a room, or is it simply part of the mechanism of opening a door?

Absolutely, these things always come down to two barristers and a judge setting a precedent because the law isn't clear.

A latch mechanism would prevent the door from opening at all, that would be equivalent to a locking knife. if the door can be pushed fully open freely, that would equate to a folding knife. If an object prevents the door from opening fully (immediately) and needs to be moved to filly open the door, that would be equivalent to a leatherman-style handle preventing the blade from fully closing.

[Cyclone]

I would say it means that the action can be carried out from start to finish without any preparation or other actions in between

A court might agree. I would argue that it need not be one mechanical motion though, so long as each component motion is a folding one and at no point does the blade lock into a position.

 

I do find it a bit odd that you think "immediately" would only apply to the beginning of the process, I would hate to think that an immediate response from emergency services would only apply at the start!

 

*Paramedics immediately get into ambulance, then have a sandwich*

Paramedics get into ambulance, they have to turn a key, they have to put on a seatbelt, they have to depress pedals and turn steering wheel.

The 'immediate response' is not a single action. Hence a blade can be immediately folded as a sequence of actions. Good example, thanks.

 

 

A latch mechanism would prevent the door from opening at all, that would be equivalent to a locking knife. if the door can be pushed open freely, that would equate to a folding knife. If an object prevents the door from opening fully (immediately) and needs to be moved to filly open the door, that would be equivalent to a leatherman-style handle preventing the blade from fully closing.

Your example of opening a door now requires that the door not have a door handle? So you would claim that you cannot immediately open any door in your house (assuming you use door handles like most of us)?

I would say that a door that is locked cannot be immediately opened, but a door that is closed on the latch can. I doubt you'd get many people to agree with your definition that a door can only be opened immediately if it's swinging freely.

[RootsBooster]

Your example of opening a door now requires that the door not have a door handle? So you would claim that you cannot immediately open any door in your house (assuming you use door handles like most of us)?

I would say that a door that is locked cannot be immediately opened, but a door that is closed on the latch can. I doubt you'd get many people to agree with your definition that a door can only be opened immediately if it's swinging freely.

 

No, that was your example, the door having a latch. My example was being to open it freely.

[Cyclone]

Yes, you asked about the ability to immediately enter a room, I mentioned the door specifically.

 

I can immediately enter my living room, through the process of depressing the handle and pushing the door. I cannot immediately leave the house because I must unlock the door first.

So we would argue in court over what "immediately" meant.

It's impossible for us to resolve it here, I'm happy to disagree with you, we both understand the position the other is presenting, and we both continue to believe that we may have a point, shall we leave it?