Bedroom tax to be extended to pensioners.

[tzijlstra]

First, there is no such thing as a housing ladder only long term mortgage debt. Second, greed is what drives the housing market so housing is only built for maximum profit and not necessarily built to provide suitable provision or need.

 

Not sure what your point is. your generation managed to get a house for a fair price on a very manageable mortgage, my generation and younger need to use artificial mechanisms to even be able and afford the lowest specced houses. I suppose it isn't a ladder when you are on it.

 

You can but I doubt many elderly would pay £180,000+ for a 2 bed flat and then also have to pay the extra service charges on top.

 

I didn't say anything about buying, I was talking about provision, there isn't enough varied housing being build. The tightness of the property market squeezes out the margins - pensioners that need an accessible home for example. Also, you can rent in St. Pauls for around £600 if I recall well, that is half of what a council provided bungalow in S8 (nm W1) would fetch.

 

The main post is about the bedroom tax hitting the elderly but that would only apply if the property was council or housing association owned, and only for new tenants after April this year. Current pensioners will not be affected and it would not affect those currently in council housing or owner occupiers.

 

Thats why this is a bit of a non-story.

 

It would affect my generation once they become older, agreed, non-story, our future and the way society works doesn't matter, you'll be gone by then. As long as it provides for you, you will be happy.

 

I dont quite frankly care where they WANT to live. When someone else is picking up the tab its not THEIR choice and they are not in a position to demand anything.

 

Using your elderly grandfather as an example, are you saying that if he relied on council housing with taxpayers subsidising his rent, and in the highly unlikely event that a city centre, ground level, single storey, single occupancy dwelling came free - he would be entitled to refuse and stay in a muti-bedroomed underoccupied home just because the new place was a bit noisier and not big enough for all his possessions - hardly sounds fair!

 

In any event, as Apelike points out, such a scenario does not apply and the so called bedroom tax is only going to affect a limited number of people beyond a certain future point.

 

All I pointed out is that the housing market is so skewiff these days that it is too inflexible to accommodate needs. I haven't got an opinion on this law one way or the other, in my opinion all council funded housing is bad, as is all regulation that limits flexibility of the housing market to respond to needs.

[spilldig]

Inheritance Tax. Wealth Tax. VAT.

 

Inheritance and VAT, yes, but I think you know what I meant.

[Nagel]

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

 

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

 

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

 

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

They sound like a bunch of Nazis to me. Something should be done!

[gomgeg]

There's no such thing as a bedroom tax, it's the removal of spare room subsidy.

All other things being equal a property with more rooms will have higher council tax, rent and purchase price and most people will live in what they can afford.

So why should council properties be any different?

[Staunton]

The ideology of neoliberalism includes the notion that it is the place of the precariat simply to absorb all the uncertainties of capitalism. While the well placed and comfortable quibble over semantics, the poor are simply expected to work for a low wage, a wage insufficient to meet their needs, to face the horrors of unemployment when economic policy fails, and to move on from one insecure tenure to another because they cannot establish for themselves the security enjoyed by the capitalists and their supporters.

 

Notice how, with one or two exceptions, there is little demonstration in this thread of any consideration for the feelings and sensibilities of the poor, who are simply expected to absorb the routine dislocations that capitalism imposes on those it exploits. Neither is there any sign of analysis of, or compassion for the attendant upheaval, isolation and anxiety that precarious existence imposes upon the victims of capitalism.

[apelike]

Not sure what your point is. your generation managed to get a house for a fair price on a very manageable mortgage, my generation and younger need to use artificial mechanisms to even be able and afford the lowest specced houses. I suppose it isn't a ladder when you are on it.

 

 

Times change, prices and wages change in line with inflation and current conditions so don't go blaming my generation for that. Many of my generation like me still do not own a home and still rent from the council. Those pensioners now that own a home are the lucky ones that managed to have a decent job and wage to afford the high deposits required at the time. Not to mention the high interest rates of the past compared to now. Working class people who worked down the pits, worked in steelworks, worked in manufacturing or retailing would not get a mortgage. They were the majority they rented and were happy to rely on affordable social housing because of low wages.

 

 

It would affect my generation once they become older, agreed, non-story, our future and the way society works doesn't matter, you'll be gone by then. As long as it provides for you, you will be happy.

 

 

Another bitter attitude from you. This article is about council and social housing associations having to charge pensioners the bedroom tax for new tenancies after April this year. I doubt that when you are a pensioner the bedroom tax will even exist as council and social housing will be a thing of the past.

 

 

All I pointed out is that the housing market is so skewiff these days that it is too inflexible to accommodate needs. I haven't got an opinion on this law one way or the other, in my opinion all council funded housing is bad, as is all regulation that limits flexibility of the housing market to respond to needs.

 

 

As pointed out its a deliberate ploy now to keep people in debt. Why do you think there was a surge in buy to let property ownership? Its because private renting is very profitable and becoming the norm, home ownership % wise has decreased because of cost. The government are also trying to encourage new ownership by giving subsidies under the Help To Buy scheme which is costing billions.

 

The way to counter that though is to actually build more affordable social housing which in turn will make house prices cheaper. That wont be done however as it can also create negative equity for some.

[crookedspire]

I have a grandmother who lives in sheltered accommodation and has done for some years she will be soon be 88 and is blind . The council in my area used to have the policy that only over 55s could live their and had warden who worked their full time. Since the so - called ' Bedroom Tax' came in this policy has gone out of the window the warden retired and was not replaced now anyone can live in sheltered accommodation. Now people only want an one bedroom flat their is very few in my area leaving the only place to put them is sheltered accommodation the result been a disaster. In my grans block they have an abusive alcoholic who regularly smash up his flat ,domestic abuse victims who partners try to gain access. The residents live in fear my gran keeps her door locked all the time . She could move yes but would have to pay out more in rent as the only truly place for over 55s is private sheltered accommodation she does not have the money to move nor fit enough to move . The extra bedroom policy is a sick joke.

[Crosser]

Well considered post, and most of it hard to disagree with. The point being that moving house for older pensioners is arguably much more traumatic than a young person. More to the point this is a temp. situation and will disappear in time without intervention.

I agree we have a housing shortage, and something has to be done, but pensioners are already being moved as they become unable to manage in their homes.

Another thing I have noticed about housing, when I was a kid my Gran voluntarily moved into a one bed flat when her two bed home was no longer needed. It was a block of six and all were older folk. I am told those flats are now occupied exclusively by single youngsters.

Why is that?

 

Simple!

Because young people on benefits have to downsize or be penalised for not doing so, hence there was a HUGE demand for smaller homes and they had to be put somewhere.

[I1L2T3]

As Ron says. You can't tax something that's not earned. What it is is a reduction in benefit.

 

You can actually

[Crosser]

There's no such thing as a bedroom tax, it's the removal of spare room subsidy.

All other things being equal a property with more rooms will have higher council tax, rent and purchase price and most people will live in what they can afford.

So why should council properties be any different?

 

If that is the case, then why shouldn't people who buy council houses pay the going rate, no matter how long they have lived there>?

 

Otherwise all things are far from equal!

Edited October 2, 2016 by Crosser