Beggars, homeless, street drinkers & drug users in Sheffield!

[Bob Arctor]

Genuine question...how often does this happen?

 

I don't have any figures, my experience is anecdotal and to some extent self-selecting, in that the people we help where I work are people for whom something has gone wrong. What I can say is that from my experience it's not an infrequent occurrence, and that's because (and I can say this with confidence) employers often over-promise to agency and zero hour contract workers.

 

A common scenario is that someone applies for a ZHC job and are told by the employer that they can expect a regular 35 - 40 hours per week. And then what happens is that they get offered that amount in the first week and maybe the second week. Then the next week it's not so much, maybe 20 hours. At this point the worker doesn't have enough to pay all their bills, rent and council tax and they get jittery. But the employer says they've got some more work coming up next week, so they hold on. But the next week has even less hours, maybe zero. But the worker is still getting promise of a big spike in work coming up so they hold out for another week. But the next week is the same. At this point they decide to bail out and sign on, but by now they are nearly a month behind with the rent and they have council tax arrears. Often they have borrowed from family and friends (or if they don't have those who can loan to them, a payday loan company) for daily essentials. And they have 7 waiting days before they can make a JSA claim, and when they get their first payment they have to pay back people they have borrowed from, or the loan from the payday lender is escalating in interest.

 

All this suits the employers - often they will recruit to ZHCs at a time when they have got some extra work coming up, but often that is only for a few weeks, but they know they won't entice many people with the required attributes unless they inflate the amount of work available. And because the amount of work they have coming up isn't always predictable it suits them to have a pool of available labour that they either use or not.

 

Workers who have been through this cycle tend to avoid going for similar employment again. And at work we advise people to be very cautious of taking these contracts. And for part-time work on conventional contracts of around 12-13 hours per weeks we do a 'better off calculation' which often shows that the person will be worse off in work - but we find that despite our advice people still take these hours or ZHCs because, despite what the right wing media keep telling us, people really want to work, even if it makes them worse off - they hope that once they've got their toe in the door, extra hours will follow. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

 

All of this fuels personal debt, puts people at risk of homelessness (especially those with private landlords) and puts demand on food banks and other charity-provided services. We just get busier and busier.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Bob Arctor

[paula4sheff]

Zero hours contracts are a disgrace really. How they've been allowed to happen is beyond me - essentially they are just a way for employers to rip up all employment law.

 

I would urge anyone even considering one to think again. You're genuinely better off unemployed - at least then you can budget; you know how much you are getting each week and can live within your limited means. With zero hours contracts there is nothing but constant fear.

[ECCOnoob]

Zero hours contracts are a disgrace really. How they've been allowed to happen is beyond me - essentially they are just a way for employers to rip up all employment law.

 

I would urge anyone even considering one to think again. You're genuinely better off unemployed - at least then you can budget; you know how much you are getting each week and can live within your limited means. With zero hours contracts there is nothing but constant fear.

 

Nonsense. For goodness sake when will people stop banging on about zhc as if its some unknown phonomena that only existed in the years when the evil tories got into power.

 

Jesus christ has nobody heard of the words CASUAL LABOUR. Join a company and wait until you are given a shift as and when required by the needs of a business. Its how I worked in my hotel days and its how many people still work now. Not every business has a constant flow of operations which requires a constant level of staff. Not every business can or does operate 365 days of the year.

 

Just because its got some trendy buzz words of "zero hours contract" does not mean that the concept did not exist before the left wing media blew it out of all proportion.

 

Nobody with a brain cell actually thinks that a zhc job is something they are supposed to undertake for the rest of their career and survive on long term.

 

Those who do think like that need a good kick up the backside.

 

ANY work is better than NO work and if you are jobless there is no excuse. Even if its as and when.

 

People who trot out the phrase "better off being unemployed" quite frankly disgust me. Nobody fit and healthy for work is owed a lifestyle off the state.

[paula4sheff]

Nonsense. For goodness sake when will people stop banging on about zhc as if its some unknown phonomena that only existed in the years when the evil tories got into power.

 

Jesus christ has nobody heard of the words CASUAL LABOUR. Join a company and wait until you are given a shift as and when required by the needs of a business. Its how I worked in my hotel days and its how many people still work now. Not every business has a constant flow of operations which requires a constant level of staff. Not every business can or does operate 365 days of the year.

 

Just because its got some trendy buzz words of "zero hours contract" does not mean that the concept did not exist before the left wing media blew it out of all proportion.

 

Nobody with a brain cell actually thinks that a zhc job is something they are supposed to undertake for the rest of their career and survive on long term.

 

Those who do think like that need a good kick up the backside.

 

ANY work is better than NO work and if you are jobless there is no excuse. Even if its as and when.

 

People who trot out the phrase "better off being unemployed" quite frankly disgust me. Nobody fit and healthy for work is owed a lifestyle off the state.

 

An absolutely ridiculous post that no one who knows anything about employment law wpuld ever make.

 

The job centre can no longer insist anyobe apply for a zero hours contract job. In fact many advisors recommend people not to.

 

I always enjoy the old 'left wing media' line though- it's a classic. Let me guess? Zero hiurs contracts are 'fake news' too?!

 

There's too much wrong with the post to even mention- that you think no-one "with a brain cell actually thinks a zhc job is sonething they are supposed to undertake for the rest of their career" is perhaps the most daft bit....and suggests a complete lack of awareness as to what a career actually is. Not to mention a ludicrously judgemental and arrogant attitute.

 

Anyway....back in the real world, zero hours contracts are a major problem, as the poster above, who clearly works in some of support area, and knows a lot more on the subject than some nonsense posted on a forum about making people work in exploitative conditions, states.

 

They'll be banned sooner or later.

 

A couple of other points: if you thibk zero hours contraxts are he same as casual labour you really are displaying that you know nothibg about either. They're very different. They certainly aren't a 'buzz word' as you rather oddly suggest.

 

Secondly- the daily mail is a big campaigner against zero hours contracts. Are they part of the 'left wing media' too now?!

Edited July 18, 2018 by paula4sheff

[Padders]

An absolutely ridiculous post that no one who knows anything about employment law wpuld ever make.

 

The job centre can no longer insist anyobe apply for a zero hours contract job. In fact many advisors recommend people not to.

 

I always enjoy the old 'left wing media' line though- it's a classic. Let me guess? Zero hiurs contracts are 'fake news' too?!

 

There's too much wrong with the post to even mention- that you think no-one "with a brain cell actually thinks a zhc job is sonething they are supposed to undertake for the rest of their career" is perhaps the most daft bit....and suggests a complete lack of awareness as to what a career actually is. Not to mention a ludicrously judgemental and arrogant attitute.

 

Anyway....back in the real world, zero hours contracts are a major problem, as the poster above, who clearly works in some of support area, and knows a lot more on the subject than some nonsense posted on a forum about making people work in exploitative conditions, states.

 

They'll be banned sooner or later.

 

A couple of other points: if you thibk zero hours contraxts are he same as casual labour you really are displaying that you know nothibg about either. They're very different. They certainly aren't a 'buzz word' as you rather oddly suggest.

 

 

Secondly- the daily mail is a big campaigner against zero hours contracts. Are they part of the 'left wing media' too now?!

 

Come on Paula, must do better.

[paula4sheff]

Come on Paula, must do better.

 

I know, I know! It's bad....in my defence though it's a typing issue- when i type on my phone, I can't use the keys properly.....not a spelling issue!

 

Apologies though!

[Padders]

I know, I know! It's bad....in my defence though it's a typing issue- when i type on my phone, I can't use the keys properly.....not a spelling issue!

 

Apologies though!

 

Actsepted.

[Anna B]

I don't have any figures, my experience is anecdotal and to some extent self-selecting, in that the people we help where I work are people for whom something has gone wrong. What I can say is that from my experience it's not an infrequent occurrence, and that's because (and I can say this with confidence) employers often over-promise to agency and zero hour contract workers.

 

A common scenario is that someone applies for a ZHC job and are told by the employer that they can expect a regular 35 - 40 hours per week. And then what happens is that they get offered that amount in the first week and maybe the second week. Then the next week it's not so much, maybe 20 hours. At this point the worker doesn't have enough to pay all their bills, rent and council tax and they get jittery. But the employer says they've got some more work coming up next week, so they hold on. But the next week has even less hours, maybe zero. But the worker is still getting promise of a big spike in work coming up so they hold out for another week. But the next week is the same. At this point they decide to bail out and sign on, but by now they are nearly a month behind with the rent and they have council tax arrears. Often they have borrowed from family and friends (or if they don't have those who can loan to them, a payday loan company) for daily essentials. And they have 7 waiting days before they can make a JSA claim, and when they get their first payment they have to pay back people they have borrowed from, or the loan from the payday lender is escalating in interest.

 

All this suits the employers - often they will recruit to ZHCs at a time when they have got some extra work coming up, but often that is only for a few weeks, but they know they won't entice many people with the required attributes unless they inflate the amount of work available. And because the amount of work they have coming up isn't always predictable it suits them to have a pool of available labour that they either use or not.

 

Workers who have been through this cycle tend to avoid going for similar employment again. And at work we advise people to be very cautious of taking these contracts. And for part-time work on conventional contracts of around 12-13 hours per weeks we do a 'better off calculation' which often shows that the person will be worse off in work - but we find that despite our advice people still take these hours or ZHCs because, despite what the right wing media keep telling us, people really want to work, even if it makes them worse off - they hope that once they've got their toe in the door, extra hours will follow. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

 

All of this fuels personal debt, puts people at risk of homelessness (especially those with private landlords) and puts demand on food banks and other charity-provided services. We just get busier and busier.

 

Good post.

I've come across many many people with stories very similar to this.

Which is why I get so mad at statements like ECCOnoob's 'Any work is better than NO work' etc. when it clearly isn't, if it leaves you deeply in debt or homeless.

People need proper jobs paying a regular wage if they are to survive and stay solvant

[pss60]

Zero hours contracts are a disgrace really. How they've been allowed to happen is beyond me - essentially they are just a way for employers to rip up all employment law.

 

I would urge anyone even considering one to think again. You're genuinely better off unemployed - at least then you can budget; you know how much you are getting each week and can live within your limited means. With zero hours contracts there is nothing but constant fear.

The Tories are happy to have them, as they're a convenient way of massaging the unemployment figures. Something like two million workers are now on zero hour contracts - and growing.

[woodmally]

Good post.

I've come across many many people with stories very similar to this.

Which is why I get so mad at statements like ECCOnoob's 'Any work is better than NO work' etc. when it clearly isn't, if it leaves you deeply in debt or homeless.

People need proper jobs paying a regular wage if they are to survive and stay solvant

 

However ZHC are perfect for uni students or people that want a side job. So its not a one size fits all. If you are a person that requires and needs a permanent job then my advice would be ZHC would not be the right job for you.