Beggars, homeless, street drinkers & drug users in Sheffield!

[onewheeldave]

On 12/10/2018 at 11:26 PM, woodmally said:

No but has he been offered accommodation?  Maybe read this blog and let me know your thoughts. http://www.helpushelp.uk/blog/our-outreach-teams-out-on-the-streets-daily 

As previously covered, many people cannot deal with the bureaucracy, forms and procedures necessary to engage with much of the offered 'support'.

 

Particularly any support connected with the council. It's the neoliberal system way of doing things- offer 'support' that most of the victims can't engage with, them blame them for turning down help and 'choosing' to be homeless. 

 

Anyone who's gone through the misery of having to apply for support for an autistic child, or the bureaucratic farce of a PIP or other disability benefit assessment, will be aware of how the system blocks those legally entitled to, and, in desperate need of, proper support, by making the process so horrible that many have to give up as it worsens their mental health.

 

Then the likes of the poster above can chirp in with, 'well, the supports out there, if they can't be bothered to engage with it, then they're choosing...... etc, etc'.

 

 

On 12/10/2018 at 3:09 PM, Cyclone said:

I know this is 135 pages long, but I think we covered reasons why the genuinely homeless turn to drink and drugs back in the early teens of pages!  They have a grindingly hard and harsh existence.  It's self medication effectively.

Just as Cyclone says.

 

In addition, I'd point out that when it comes to alcohol, self medication is not the only factor. When people have to endure unremitting periods of sleeping outside in the cold, alcohol abuse is almost inevitable, as alcohol, while it doesn't help the body deal with the cold, it is the only available thing which can, to some extent, numb the mind, and make the ordeal that little bit easier to bear.

 

 

[Anna B]

10 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

As previously covered, many people cannot deal with the bureaucracy, forms and procedures necessary to engage with much of the offered 'support'.

 

Particularly any support connected with the council. It's the neoliberal system way of doing things- offer 'support' that most of the victims can't engage with, them blame them for turning down help and 'choosing' to be homeless. 

 

Anyone who's gone through the misery of having to apply for support for an autistic child, or the bureaucratic farce of a PIP or other disability benefit assessment, will be aware of how the system blocks those legally entitled to, and, in desperate need of, proper support, by making the process so horrible that many have to give up as it worsens their mental health.

 

Then the likes of the poster above can chirp in with, 'well, the supports out there, if they can't be bothered to engage with it, then they're choosing...... etc, etc'.

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This is a huge issue, and I'm glad to see it highlighted here. Go to the Disabilty section of the 'Sheffield Interest Groups' section, and you will see evidence of just how impossible and unpleasant the system has been made by the Neoliberal Tory party.  It has been much discussed there, but doesn't have the footfall to reach a majority of people who have never had to deal with these people.

 

To put disabled and people in serious ill health, both physical and mental, through this it is just plain nasty and vindictiive. I don't know if there are any records kept on how many people give up the process in despair, but the figures on the suicides  as a result, have been calculated by independent foundations, but suppressed by the government.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2117718/British-people-committing-suicide-escape-poverty-Is-State-wants.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/04/benefits-assessments-damaging-lives-hardworking-britain

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-investigation-horrific-suicide-question-sparks-fresh-assessment-inquiry-calls/

 

Please excuse above mess posting my own comment after Onewheeldave. (Post1642) New forum layout- still not used to it. Sorry.

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Anna B

[woodmally]

9 hours ago, Anna B said:

 

 

Please excuse above mess posting my own comment after Onewheeldave. (Post1642) New forum layout- still not used to it. Sorry.

 

I am not the one that says help is out there. Its the charities themselves that say we shouldn't give to beggars and homeless as it would prevent them engaging with services.  As for help with the bureaucracy there  is a lot of homeless charities out there that will help them with forms etc.    If all the charities are saying dont give money but help out and give money to charities and they are the experts with thes problems then I trust their view. 

 

[Anna B]

1 hour ago, woodmally said:

I am not the one that says help is out there. Its the charities themselves that say we shouldn't give to beggars and homeless as it would prevent them engaging with services.  As for help with the bureaucracy there  is a lot of homeless charities out there that will help them with forms etc.    If all the charities are saying dont give money but help out and give money to charities and they are the experts with thes problems then I trust their view. 

 

Fair enough. 

It's just that I don't have the same faith in 'the help that's out there. . .'

 

I'm not blaming the charities who do their best, but the system, which seems designed to confound the applicants and takes months (sometimes years) to reach a conclusion.  I know people who have been 20 months from the start, via applications, reconsiderations, appeals and court hearings just to get the PIP they were clearly entitled to in the first place, and that's with help from the professionals,  -for which there are waiting lists.

 

Heaven knows how people go on, on their own. As I say, many ill people just don't have the stamina or mental capacity and give up. 

[onewheeldave]

1 hour ago, woodmally said:

.......As for help with the bureaucracy there  is a lot of homeless charities out there that will help them with forms etc......

 

You've really got no idea of the realities. 

 

Another standard of the neoliberal system:  make the forms so convoluted and difficult that 'expert' help is required for a vulnerable person to fill them in (why not issue sane forms, that don't need expert assistance?).

 

Then make it impossible to even access that help for the forms, by requiring more convoluted forms to apply for the expert help itself

[Black Brick]

There are professionals that go to The Archer Project and other organisations who spend their time helping the guys fill in their forms

[Anna B]

1 hour ago, Black Brick said:

There are professionals that go to The Archer Project and other organisations who spend their time helping the guys fill in their forms

I'm sure there are.  But are there enough to go round? And filling in the form is only the start of it...

 

And are they there for the long haul and the run around, when applications go 'missing'  or  the right bits of paper 'haven't been included.' Or for the 1 hour 40 minutes it takes to get through on the telephone, to be passed from department to department, only to get cut off?  Or the disputes over the wording?  And for the contradicting  responses that make no sense, and defy logic? Or for the reconsiderations which require the collection of 'further evidence' from people who often have no means of aquiring or keeping paperwork or indeed able to see the professionals who can supply it? (Have you ever tried getting an appointment to see a mental health professional? Remember these forms are time sensitive. . .) 

 

Are they there for the medical assessments, miles away from home with no means of getting there?  Held by inexperienced, poorly qualified individuals, with no knowledge of your particular illness, and who can interpret what they see and hear on one particular day in any way they wish, and if in doubt, simply lie? 

 

Then there are the Appeals, which are in intimidating courts of Law, and practicallyrequire a law degree to understand the ramifications of a single word.  And on and on and on. . . . 

 

You have no idea. . . and this is all deliberate obfuscation designed to deter applicants and make them give up, which they often do.  As I said the process from start to finish can take upwards of 2 years, will they be there to see it through?

 

And you wonder why they 'don't accept the help that's offered to them,' and continue to beg.  

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/disability-benefits-suicide-doubled-disabled-theresa-may-conservative-tory-tories-govermment-scrap-a8131981.html

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2017-02-26/theresa-mays-head-of-policy-criticised-over-pip-comments/

Edited December 14, 2018 by Anna B

[woodmally]

On 12/12/2018 at 5:56 PM, Cyclone said:

Call it a moral judgement...  What else might we call it?

 

And going back to the point, your moral judgement about how you think they'll spend their money results in your lack of compassion.

Seems Tent City is going back up in Park Hill. https://www.facebook.com/1804120759870367/posts/2245710602378045/

[Anna B]

I

2 hours ago, woodmally said:

Seems Tent City is going back up in Park Hill. https://www.facebook.com/1804120759870367/posts/2245710602378045/

God, In this weather?

[Anna B]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

I

God, In this weather?

Just looked at 'Sheffield Tent City' page on Facebook, thanks to Woodmally's link.

 

Lots of information on there. My heart's gladdened to see the way people are ralleying round to help homeless people and get them off the street in this bitterly cold whether, and help in whatever way they can.  

Edited December 15, 2018 by Anna B