GingerR Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The benefit for heroin adults and everyone else will in theory be that the don't engage in criminal behaviour to get fixes and have a safe supply so are less likely to develop health or which cost the NHS. The problem is, heroin is great (I know, I've taken it). If you are someone who has a lot of sadness and pain or mental health issues it gives you a release from those feelings for a while and that's incredible. It's why so many people get addicted despite the awful, awful results. At the moment heroin is not at all easy to get. Dealers are incredibly cagey and usually only sell to people who are vouched for by others they know. Other users are often incredibly reluctant to do that as they don't want someone else buying up their supply and as they're usually the ones who let a friend try a bit etc it's frequently hard to get a supply even if you try really hard. It's not like a bloke down the pub knocking out a few pills and a bit of weed. Heroin dealing can still carry longish sentences so it's very hush, hush. People usually don't get in a situation where they will have heroin available to them and attractive to them unless their are already profound problems in their lives like homelessness , abusive relationships, criminality or other serious addictions. So yes, in theory it sounds a good thing to do. My problem with liberalisation of laws around heroin is that if heroin is being prescribed inevitably there is going to be a lot more heroin around and no matter how hard the authorities attempt to control the flows there will be leakage and heroin will become more available in general and that might mean it becomes available to a much wider range of people. And they won't be that worried about getting a habit because they know they'll be able to get a prescription and probably benefits too. I think it poses a risk of sending the new rates of addiction rocketing. And even safe supplies will eventually impact on people's health. Heroin almost immediately curtails most people's ability to work or parent or care for themselves properly. Spice was pretty bad a few years ago but I think heroin has the potential to be quite something else. The US has a terrible problem with opiate abuse at the moment. There have been incidents where parents have been found passed out on opiates in their car while their kids are strapped in the back seats. I really think the potential risks are far too high for it to be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyTup Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 05/01/2020 at 13:03, Halibut said: I'm advocating that those addicted to heroin be given heroin on prescription. The objective is to wean them off heroin, not give them more of it. This is why a heroin substitute is used on prescription - it's called methadone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyTup Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 05/01/2020 at 12:04, Halibut said: Actually, yes. By no means everyone who uses herein becomes addicted. Heroin in moderation is NOT even a thing . Although heroin addiction does not begin after just one use, as some people believe, the pleasurable feelings that it induces can motivate people to use it again. A physical and psychological dependence on heroin may actually take a while to set in, during which time the user will probably think that they have their use under control. However, as tolerance to the drug starts to go up, they will need to take more of it, and more frequently, to feel the same effects. For this reason, a heroin user is often already an addict before they even realise that there is a problem. I think you are intelligent enough to know this - but you obviously just like arguing with people, so we'll leave you to get on with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, DerbyTup said: The objective is to wean them off heroin, not give them more of it. This is why a heroin substitute is used on prescription - it's called methadone. It's not about giving them more - it's about giving them a safe, pharmaceutically clean, maintenance dose, which frees them from having to spend two thirds of their time searching for the next score and having to steal, mug, or prostitute themselves to pay for it. 1 minute ago, DerbyTup said: Heroin in moderation is NOT even a thing . You're just completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyTup Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Halibut said: It's not about giving them more - it's about giving them a safe, pharmaceutically clean, maintenance dose, which frees them from having to spend two thirds of their time searching for the next score and having to steal, mug, or prostitute themselves to pay for it. I do understand this Mr Halibut. I'm qualified in this field - are you? I'm telling you that you cannot give them heroin to break the habit of heroin. You can give them a heroin substitute, like methadone, which is what is being done currently. Go find someone else to have your idiotic arguments with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DerbyTup said: I do understand this Mr Halibut. I'm qualified in this field - are you? I'm telling you that you cannot give them heroin to break the habit of heroin. You can give them a heroin substitute, like methadone, which is what is being done currently. Go find someone else to have your idiotic arguments with. What qualifications are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyTup Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 On 17/01/2020 at 09:41, Halibut said: What qualifications are you referring to? Shall I send you my CV?😀 Sorry, but you are just looking to argue, or contradict, just about everything that is posted on here. You are, as we say locally, "a contrary Mary". Do carry on. But try and have some social conscience as well. When you suggest things like making heroin available to heroin addicts as being a good thing, you are being irresponsible in my view. Anyone reading this, who may be addicted to heroin, (and I hope that is no one at all!) might be encouraged to continue. The whole reason why methadone is given is to get them off heroin. Once they start on heroin it is inevitably a downward spiral. Methadone is the most suitable heroin substitute. It is still an opiate (same family as heroin) but it is available in a "safe, pharmaceutically clean, maintenance dose, which frees them from having to spend two thirds of their time searching for the next score and having to steal, mug, or prostitute themselves to pay for it". So educate us all now, and tell us why you think giving heroin would be a better alternative? On 17/01/2020 at 07:54, Halibut said: It's not about giving them more - it's about giving them a safe, pharmaceutically clean, maintenance dose, which frees them from having to spend two thirds of their time searching for the next score and having to steal, mug, or prostitute themselves to pay for it. You're just completely wrong. Please provide the scientific evidence that supports this statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 16 hours ago, DerbyTup said: Quote Shall I send you my CV?😀 No thanks, but your response suggests that your claim ''I'm qualified in this field'' was without foundation. Quote Sorry, but you are just looking to argue, or contradict, just about everything that is posted on here. You are, as we say locally, "a contrary Mary". Do carry on. But try and have some social conscience as well. When you suggest things like making heroin available to heroin addicts as being a good thing, you are being irresponsible in my view. Anyone reading this, who may be addicted to heroin, (and I hope that is no one at all!) might be encouraged to continue. I've plenty of social conscience thankyou having spent my working life thus far in psychiatric nursing, teaching and advocacy. You're line about 'anyone reading this who's an addict might be encouraged to continue' tells me and anyone else reading that you are utterly clueless about the realities of addiction. Quote The whole reason why methadone is given is to get them off heroin. Once they start on heroin it is inevitably a downward spiral. Methadone is the most suitable heroin substitute. It is still an opiate (same family as heroin) but it is available in a "safe, pharmaceutically clean, maintenance dose, which frees them from having to spend two thirds of their time searching for the next score and having to steal, mug, or prostitute themselves to pay for it". Quote So educate us all now, and tell us why you think giving heroin would be a better alternative? Please provide the scientific evidence that supports this statement? Read this - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jan/10/why-methadone-drugs-dont-work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 18 hours ago, DerbyTup said: Shall I send you my CV?😀 Sorry, but you are just looking to argue, or contradict, just about everything that is posted on here. You are, as we say locally, "a contrary Mary". Do carry on. But try and have some social conscience as well. When you suggest things like making heroin available to heroin addicts as being a good thing, you are being irresponsible in my view. Anyone reading this, who may be addicted to heroin, (and I hope that is no one at all!) might be encouraged to continue. The whole reason why methadone is given is to get them off heroin. Once they start on heroin it is inevitably a downward spiral. Methadone is the most suitable heroin substitute. It is still an opiate (same family as heroin) but it is available in a "safe, pharmaceutically clean, maintenance dose, which frees them from having to spend two thirds of their time searching for the next score and having to steal, mug, or prostitute themselves to pay for it". So educate us all now, and tell us why you think giving heroin would be a better alternative? Please provide the scientific evidence that supports this statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/10/norway-trials-free-heroin-prescriptions-for-most-serious-addicts Norway is going to trial doing exactly that, as apparently is Middlesborough.. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/09/revealed-british-town-give-worst-drug-addicts-two-daily-doses/ There is scientific evidence it works.. https://www.healio.com/primary-care/addiction/news/online/{74628f44-d951-4681-b93b-095e6859a7fb}/heroin-assisted-treatment-successful-in-foreign-countries-should-be-considered-in-us "Patients in foreign countries who could not stop using medical-grade heroin with conventional traditional treatment methods were successfully treated when they were provided heroin in a supervised setting, a report recently released by the RAND Corporation found." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Thanks for that information Robin-H. Here's a very thought provoking article about giving money to the homeless, addicts and beggars from the New Statesman. I implore anyone who has contributed to this thread to read it - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/why-you-should-give-money-directly-and-unconditionally-homeless-people?fbclid=IwAR3xUD-AM-e38kw0PU71jnIhGT3AjyF4rPmP-DGULoKQ3abyHugV-sEAl_Y#amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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