Was Lily Allen right or wrong?

[tinfoilhat]

Well with that attitude I'm glad people like you weren't around when the Nazis were bombing Britain in the 2nd world war.

 

Not a civil war though. These lads aren't signing up to join a single well trained, well equipped army fighting one common enemy, they're joining a bunch of blokes on a street corner who may or may not swap sides or kill them. There's no food, there's no support, there's clearly no rule of law.

 

Comparing what's going on Syria to WW2 does you no favours.

[phil752]

I had crows feet from a very early age. They appeared naturally every time I SMILED! You should try it sometime.

They have all been returned to their parents, who were waiting for them. Let's say some of them aren't under 18.....should that really be a valid reason to not let them reunite with their families and leave a country that is being bombed on a daily basis?

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but i have not heard the word parents used in the media, always families, this could be cousins or third uncles remove.

[Bonzo77]

Correct me if i'm wrong but i have not heard the word parents used in the media, always families, this could be cousins or third uncles remove.

 

Could be for some of them, yeah. Their mum and dad might be forced to stay there due to financial reasons and/or political reason's but they've seen an opportunity to get their children to safety by sending them to the UK to stay with family.

[phil752]

Could be for some of them, yeah. Their mum and dad might be forced to stay there due to financial reasons and/or political reason's but they've seen an opportunity to get their children to safety by sending them to the UK to stay with family.

 

But why are they not in the French welfare system.

[pmurtdlanod1]

Could be for some of them, yeah. Their mum and dad might be forced to stay there due to financial reasons and/or political reason's but they've seen an opportunity to get their children to safety by sending them to the UK to stay with family.

 

yes of course!!! thats it? the family are so wide spread it could be a 10th cousin twice removed? but hey thats family:roll:

[Mr Bloke]

yes of course!!! thats it? the family are so wide spread it could be a 10th cousin twice removed? but hey thats family:roll:

... not twice removed from the UK, I hope?

[L00b]

But why are they not in the French welfare system.

Probably because the French welfare system is only accessible to persons with paperwork in order (including identification with photo, such as a visa/sojourn permit for refugees/non-EU immigrants) and has many stringent checks to verify entitlement.

 

Unlike the British welfare system, as I understand matters. For a start, the NHS treats walk-ins or picked-ups no- or few- questions asked. Which is not how the French healthcare system works. You pay first (some or all of the treatment, treatment-dependent), and get refunded (some or all of the expense, treatment-dependent) after.

 

That's before (or after) you've considered the well-known legal entitlement of French police officers to verify your ID on the spot and detain you likewise on the spot if they can't or aren't satisfied with the documentation produced (which is why "ID on your person at all times" is compulsory in France for everyone, residents and not, nationals and not). Tricky for an illegal stopped in the street, means a one-way trip to the processing centre and, potentially and ultimately, deportation ("charter-isation", as we French call it colloquially).

 

Again, unlike the British 'producer' system, as I understand matters.

 

These differences are quite attractive, to someone who does not have (...or want) "paperwork in order". Like all those in the Calais Jungle, and attractive enough that they'd brake on all fours to resist the serial attempts on the French side to process them all and clean the place up. Certainly also attractive enough to those who traffic them into the UK.

 

Unhappy about this situation? As usual, take it up with your government. 100% of the above is the sole prerogative of the UK government to sort out. Not the EU, Brussels, the French, immigrants <etc>

Edited October 21, 2016 by L00b

[unbeliever]

Probably because the French welfare system is only accessible to persons with paperwork in order (including identification with photo, such as a visa/sojourn permit for refugees/non-EU immigrants) and has many stringent checks to verify entitlement.

 

Unlike the British welfare system, as I understand matters. For a start, the NHS treats walk-ins or picked-ups no- or few- questions asked. Which is not how the French healthcare system works. You pay first (some or all of the treatment, treatment-dependent), and get refunded (some or all of the expense, treatment-dependent) after.

 

That's before (or after) you've considered the well-known legal entitlement of French police officers to verify your ID on the spot and detain you likewise on the spot if they can't or aren't satisfied with the documentation produced (which is why "ID on your person at all times" is compulsory in France for everyone, residents and not, nationals and not). Tricky for an illegal stopped in the street, means a one-way trip to the processing centre and, potentially and ultimately, deportation ("charter-isation", as we French call it colloquially).

 

Again, unlike the British 'producer' system, as I understand matters.

 

These differences are quite attractive, to someone who does not have (...or want) "paperwork in order". Like all those in the Calais Jungle, and attractive enough that they'd brake on all fours to resist the serial attempts on the French side to process them all and clean the place up. Certainly also attractive enough to those who traffic them into the UK.

 

Unhappy about this situation? As usual, take it up with your government. 100% of the above is the sole prerogative of the UK government to sort out. Not the EU, Brussels, the French, immigrants <etc>

 

 

This change you suggest goes against centuries of British tradition and would likely fundamentally change the relationship between the people and the state.

[L00b]

This change you suggest goes against centuries of British tradition and would likely fundamentally change the relationship between the people and the state.

I'm well aware of the fact, unbeliever.

 

I didn't say it was "the solution for the UK", I was just replying to phil's question.

 

How the UK solves the problem (if the UK considers it a problem and actually wants to solve it), is the UK's problem.

 

Not France's.

[unbeliever]

I'm well aware of the fact, unbeliever.

 

I didn't say it was "the solution for the UK", I was just replying to phil.

 

How the UK solves it (if it actually wants to solve it), is the UK's problem. Not France's.

 

It's a problem for the border between France and the UK, which is a problem for both nations. I could just as easily argue that France should start doing things as the UK does.