Obelix Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 We were having a discussion over beer with some friends at the weekend, and one thing that's on everyones mind is the Cold War. As in - has it started again? We have Russia stationing medium range missiles in Kaliningrad, right on the borders of NATO. Missiles that are nuclear armed. The situation in the Crimea is rumbling on - meanwhile Syria is fast turning into another situation where East and West stare at each other and we get to guess who blinks first. Sounds awfully familiar to anyone from the 1980's..? What do people think? Are we there is this a second Cold War or did the first never really go out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) From what I can recall the USSR at its best was a comparable economic power to the USA (GDP within a factor of 2). Today the GDP of the USA stands at $17tn, where as the Russian Federation stands at $2tn. If it's another cold war, they'll lose quickly. This is something different. They're turning gradually into a rogue state. I don't think it will last though. More of a tantrum. To be honest we've been missing around on their turf and their doorstep rather taking the #@£€. I'm sure we had good and noble intentions, but they have their own security and national interest to consider. Edited October 17, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I don't think it ever ended in putin's mind. It's more sabre rattling than anything else though this time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Russia don't have the power to stand up and face the Americans anymore. They like to think they do, but in reality it'd be abit one sided in the end. Obviously you never want it to come to that, the Russians would love to press the big red nuke button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Russia don't have the power to stand up and face the Americans anymore. They like to think they do, but in reality it'd be abit one sided in the end. Obviously you never want it to come to that, the Russians would love to press the big red nuke button. Russians are not fanatical. If anything they're more driven by cold reason and less by emotion that the west. They mostly just want to get on in the world. They're not going to start a full scale war unless we're silly enough to really back them into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 What like when they invaded Crimea on the sly? Don't forget Putin's main powerbase is based on him being the big ex-KGB hardman who will stand up for the country and not take any crap. He can't do that if it looks like he's bowing to pressure from the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) What like when they invaded Crimea on the sly? The EU attempting to pull in the Ukraine, a former Soviet nation and right on the Russian border, may have seemed perfectly reasonable to the west. To Russia it would have looked like a massive #@€$ you and a threat to their national security. Not to mention that almost half the Ukraine population are ethnically Russian and don't want to get dragged kicking and screaming into the west. Don't get me wrong. No doubt here who the bad guys are. Ukraine was a sovereign nation and everything that the EU did was legal. But it was also rather foolish. ---------- Post added 17-10-2016 at 11:45 ---------- Don't forget Putin's main powerbase is based on him being the big ex-KGB hardman who will stand up for the country and not take any crap. He can't do that if it looks like he's bowing to pressure from the west. I agree. You've got Putin's number there. Edited October 17, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I got the feeling the majority of the Ukrainians want into Europe to be honest, Yanukovych didn't last very long after he decided he wanted to get into bed with Russian rather than pursue closer ties with Europe. There is some pro-Russian support, especially to the west although it is very tough to tell what is genuine, what is forced and what are simply armed militia sent in from Russia. It's certain the civil war wouldn't have been anywhere near as big if Russia weren't directly arming the rebels and covertly providing manpower and intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 I agree. You've got Putin's number there. Putin is the ultimate one trick pony - but it's a very good trick he has a lot of mileage from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 China has been kept from invading Taiwan for decades exactly because this kind of ignorant, ham-fisted, moronic excuse for diplomacy is avoided. Trying to bring Ukraine into the EU. Muppets! Within the law, absolutely. Within the bounds of sanity or common sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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