The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[I1L2T3]

Other countries and regions have broken away from parent nations and super states before. The cry for independence is hardly new.

Why is it okay for them and not for us?

 

We're already an independent sovereign state.

 

Don't try and counter with the EU superstate' nonsense. We'd already detached from that long ago.

 

---------- Post added 17-12-2016 at 11:01 ----------

 

To many the referendum wasn't about pounds, shillings and pence.

 

Yeah right. You all banged on about sovereignty and making our own laws but when it really matters you want to hand that power to an exclusive clique led by an incompetent unelected PM, ignoring the sovereignty of parliament in the process.

 

I think you're very confused to be honest. None of what you want makes any sense.

[unbeliever]

We're already an independent sovereign state.

 

Don't try and counter with the EU superstate' nonsense. We'd already detached from that long ago.

 

I'll counter as I see fit thanks. EU members are not sovereign. To be sovereign means to have final say over your laws. EU members do not have that and are therefore not sovereign. QED.

 

---------- Post added 17-12-2016 at 12:06 ----------

 

I note you didn`t disagree with me

 

I've most certainly do.

[I1L2T3]

I'll counter as I see fit thanks. EU members are not sovereign. To be sovereign means to have final say over your laws. EU members do not have that and are therefore not sovereign. QED..

 

Problem is you are trading on a myth.

 

Pooling sovereignty (which is what we do) is not the same as giving up sovereignty.

 

We could make a decision, a sovereign decision, in parliament whenever we want to end the pooling of sovereignty with EU states.

 

We have total control over that. The EU has never once attempted to or tried to force us to change our constitution.

 

Sovereignty has never been lost. Not for a single minute since 1972.

[999tigger]

I'll counter as I see fit thanks. EU members are not sovereign. To be sovereign means to have final say over your laws. EU members do not have that and are therefore not sovereign. QED..

 

EU members and the UK are sovereign nations and they do have final say over their own laws. They choose to be in the EU, but agree for that period that where there is a conflict then EU will take precedence.

 

The important thing is the members agreed to this and if they dont like it they have the right to leave, just as we are doing. There is nothing the EU can do to prevent us withdrawing from the EU treaties.

[hush]

Problem is you are trading on a myth.

 

Pooling sovereignty (which is what we do) is not the same as giving up sovereignty.

 

We could make a decision, a sovereign decision, in parliament whenever we want to end the pooling of sovereignty with EU states.

 

We have total control over that. The EU has never once attempted to or tried to force us to change our constitution.

 

Sovereignty has never been lost. Not for a single minute since 1972.

 

The good news is that although we do not agree on your interpretation of how the EU controls our laws, the fact that we are leaving the EU means that we can agree that they won't be able to do it in future.

[Gamston]

 

Yeah right. You all banged on about sovereignty and making our own laws but when it really matters you want to hand that power to an exclusive clique led by an incompetent unelected PM, ignoring the sovereignty of parliament in the process.

 

I think you're very confused to be honest. None of what you want makes any sense.

No confusion here. The UK voted to leave the EU and will leave the EU, regardless of attempts by sore losers inventing new phrases, such as soft and hard BREXIT, just to throw a spanner in the works, of the democratic wishes of voters.

 

We hardly have an alternative credible Government, laying in waiting at the moment. Since 1940, there have been seven times, when a ruling party in the UK, has changed leadership between General elections.

[I1L2T3]

No confusion here. The UK voted to leave the EU and will leave the EU, regardless of attempts by sore losers inventing new phrases, such as soft and hard BREXIT, just to throw a spanner in the works, of the democratic wishes of voters.

 

We hardly have an alternative credible Government, laying in waiting at the moment. Since 1940, there have been seven times, when a ruling party in the UK, has changed leadership between General elections.

 

OK let's call it extreme Brexit and logical Brexit.

 

With the extreme version you tear up 80 existing free trade agreements, detach from negotiations over dozens more free trade agreements, risk millions of jobs, risk economic chaos but you do win a small victory over a vague notion of sovereignty which having refused to pool it any more means the power of it is diminished. If by some small chance the economy is not damaged and continues to grow then immigration has to continue as before. Even then there is an EU exit fee and ongoing payments.

 

Logical Brexit means things look pretty much like they do now. So similar in fact that the value of leaving the EU is in question.

 

Logical Brexit means May and her cronies stop behaving like complete idiots and stop telling us all they can achieve an impossible deal, and get the sensible deal this country needs.

 

What is this credible alternative government?

[Gamston]

OK let's call it extreme Brexit and logical Brexit.

 

With the extreme version you tear up 80 existing free trade agreements, detach from negotiations over dozens more free trade agreements, risk millions of jobs, risk economic chaos but you do win a small victory over a vague notion of sovereignty which having refused to pool it any more means the power of it is diminished. If by some small chance the economy is not damaged and continues to grow then immigration has to continue as before. Even then there is an EU exit fee and ongoing payments.

 

Logical Brexit means things look pretty much like they do now. So similar in fact that the value of leaving the EU is in question.

 

Logical Brexit means May and her cronies stop behaving like complete idiots and stop telling us all they can achieve an impossible deal, and get the sensible deal this country needs.

 

What is this credible alternative government?

There isn't one.

[I1L2T3]

There isn't one.

 

Given the existing government isnt credible, and the fact this country is facing it's biggest crisis since 1939 maybe it's time to admit that this issue is best dealt with in a colaborative way.

 

Yes that means Labour, the LibDems, Ukip and the various national parties being a part of the process too.

 

All of us accept we will leave the EU but it has to happen on the most inclusive possible terms. Extreme Brexiters forcing through their vision will split the country. It won't work.

 

So forget the sore loser nonsense. Remain lost but we're now fighting back to secure the best deal for us all.

[tinfoilhat]

Given the existing government isnt credible, and the fact this country is facing it's biggest crisis since 1939 maybe it's time to admit that this issue is best dealt with in a colaborative way.

 

Yes that means Labour, the LibDems, Ukip and the various national parties being a part of the process too.

 

All of us accept we will leave the EU but it has to happen on the most inclusive possible terms. Extreme Brexiters forcing through their vision will split the country. It won't work.

 

So forget the sore loser nonsense. Remain lost but we're now fighting back to secure the best deal for us all.

 

I don't think hard brexiters really give a toss what everyone else thinks. The mail and express were up in arms because 100% of MPs didn't vote the same way as 52% of the electorate. Given half a chance some would ship us out with the Poles (yes people with this view exist -read some BBC comments).