The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[Gamston]

 

The leave campaign may have win but they do not own the subsequent process. That is not what they won.

That is what is going to happen. Dishonest people, who seek to cheat the electorate out of their wishes, will play no part in the subsequent process, once Article 50 is triggered.

 

If you want to remain part of the EU, then your best bet, is to start your own negotiations, for a new life in a EU country. You have a choice of 27 and I wish you good luck.

[I1L2T3]

That is what is going to happen. Dishonest people, who seek to cheat the electorate out of their wishes, will play no part in the subsequent process, once Article 50 is triggered.

 

If you want to remain part of the EU, then your best bet, is to start your own negotiations, for a new life in a EU country. You have a choice of 27 and I wish you good luck.

 

I've said multiple times that I accept we'll leave.

 

Of course those who want a softer Brexit will have to be listened to. Failing to do that would be political suicide.

 

You forgot to mention democracy

[Flanker7]

That is what is going to happen. Dishonest people, who seek to cheat the electorate out of their wishes, will play no part in the subsequent process, once Article 50 is triggered.

 

If you want to remain part of the EU, then your best bet, is to start your own negotiations, for a new life in a EU country. You have a choice of 27 and I wish you good luck.

 

You don't get how society works do you.

There are intelligent, interested and involved people in many walks of life. Many Brexiters are not any of these and especially the last, involved. So they have had their fun given the establishment a good kick and now are standing back wondering what to rant about next. The intelligent, interested and involved are thinking ahead and preparing themselves and the country for a number of alternatives.

 

So think on about your use of the words 'dishonest', 'cheat' and choosing one of the 27 countries. Yawn. It reminds me of 'building a wall and who is going to build it' - When this rhetoric is gone there is no way forward for you.

[Gamston]

I've said multiple times that I accept we'll leave.

 

Of course those who want a softer Brexit will have to be listened to. Failing to do that would be political suicide.

 

You forgot to mention democracy

You will get a chance to vote in a democratic General Election in 2020. If the people, don't think the current Government did a good job in BREXIT negotiations, then they can vote for a different party to rule our country for the next five years.

[unbeliever]

You don't get how society works do you.

There are intelligent, interested and involved people in many walks of life. Many Brexiters are not any of these and especially the last, involved. So they have had their fun given the establishment a good kick and now are standing back wondering what to rant about next. The intelligent, interested and involved are thinking ahead and preparing themselves and the country for a number of alternatives.

 

So think on about your use of the words 'dishonest', 'cheat' and choosing one of the 27 countries. Yawn. It reminds me of 'building a wall and who is going to build it' - When this rhetoric is gone there is no way forward for you.

 

 

 

You've used a lot of words there to try, yet again, to tell your opponents that they're stupid and that their votes shouldn't count.

I say that we have voted against being absorbed into an undemocratic European super-state. Whether this would actually have ultimately happened, is up for debate. Whether it was being attempted is not.

Full European integration was most certainly being attempted. You may say that it would have failed, but the Euro experiment shows how devastating these integration attempts are.

We judge, with good reason, that we have voted to protect the UK from many sources of democratic, economic and other damage from the European experiment.

You may disagree with us, but we're not stupid. You think we're wrong, we think you're wrong. So far the evidence of history is with us. When you try to make us out as stupid you make us disinclined to listen to your attempts (such as they are) to persuade us with reason.

[Flanker7]

Unbeliever - If you examined my reply you would see that I was responding to Brexit insults. Which basically said if Remainers didn't like it they can get out of the country, (whether they are immigrants or not).

 

I was careful not to lump all Brexiters into the same category.

I did not say their votes didn't count.

There are stupid people in all walks of life.

The is a difference between opinions and facts and it is often difficult to realise where one becomes the other. It is an opinion, for me, that "Full European integration was most certainly being attempted". Remember , imo, after 400 years England is not fully integrated with Scotland.

[Sidonica]

That is what is going to happen. Dishonest people, who seek to cheat the electorate out of their wishes, will play no part in the subsequent process, once Article 50 is triggered.

 

If you want to remain part of the EU, then your best bet, is to start your own negotiations, for a new life in a EU country. You have a choice of 27 and I wish you good luck.

 

The majority of people who voted remain have accepted the result but it is ridiculous to suggest that they are dishonest, are trying to cheat the electorate and that they play no part in the subsequent process. How do you intend to check out which way civil servants or anyone else who will be involved in the negotiations voted?

[chalga]

So,as the pound falls further after what May said yesterday,we know that the UK will be out of the Single Market and that immigration control will be the red line when negotiations start.Whatever concessions they can get from the EU after holding this line,we know they will go for,as per the 'have cake and eat it' line,even considering paying the EU for access after stopping paying them contributions,so immigration overrides everything in Brexit,and any negative consequence of this line is a price worth paying,whatever the cost.

Edited January 9, 2017 by chalga

[Gamston]

The majority of people who voted remain have accepted the result but it is ridiculous to suggest that they are dishonest, are trying to cheat the electorate and that they play no part in the subsequent process. How do you intend to check out which way civil servants or anyone else who will be involved in the negotiations voted?

David Cameron did the correct thing, because as a person who argued so strongly for the UK staying in the EU, then it would been ludicrous for him to negotiate the UK's exit from the EU. It makes common sense for people who wanted the UK to leave the EU, to be given major roles in sorting out the subsequent process rather than sending people who wanted the UK to stay in the EU. The Government are not going to send anybody to do the negotiations, who are going to agree to free movement of people in any agreements.

 

I haven't said all remain voters or remain politicians are dishonest. However, those trying to move the goalposts, who seek to disrupt the UK completely leaving the EU are dishonest and have no respect for democracy in my opinion.

 

---------- Post added 09-01-2017 at 10:23 ----------

 

So,as the pound falls further after what May said yesterday,we know that the UK will be out of the Single Market and that immigration control will be the red line when negotiations start.Whatever concessions they can get from the EU after holding this line,we know they will go for,as per the 'have cake and eat it' line,even considering paying the EU for access after stopping paying them contributions,so immigration overrides everything in Brexit,and any negative consequence of this line is a price worth paying,whatever the cost.

The UK voted to leave the EU and it was made perfectly clear, before the vote that as a consequence of leaving the EU, then there was no guarantee the UK would still have access to the single market.

[Flanker7]

So,as the pound falls further after what May said yesterday,we know that the UK will be out of the Single Market and that immigration control will be the red line when negotiations start.Whatever concessions they can get from the EU after holding this line,we know they will go for,as per the 'have cake and eat it' line,even considering paying the EU for access after stopping paying them contributions,so immigration overrides everything in Brexit,and any negative consequence of this line is a price worth paying,whatever the cost.

 

Thanks for getting us back on subject after that little spat. Lets hope certain parties stop using the broad brush 'everything they say must be wrong, dishonest and if they don't like it, get out' responses. (Not Unbeliever btw)

 

The above is, imo, a reasonable analysis of what May said and what therefore must follow. However, I think that immigration is part of the Brexit position not separate from it.

 

But its a very expensive price for something that, imo, will not be achieved by Brexit. So, we will pay through the nose for 'the chance' of a minor change in the immigration position, not a good deal.