El Cid Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I would agree, except that this claim (the £350m/week) was thoroughly discussed and qualified multiple times before the vote. It would of course have been far better if they'd stuck to the net figure. However today I have been more interested in debunking the profoundly false and often repeated claims by many of the remain hold-outs that the matter of single market membership was either not discussed at length, or spoken of positively in the event of a leave vote. The facts on this speak for themselves (provided Open Britain and others are prevented from promulgating their lies on the matter). These forums are wonderfull for discussing issues, there are facts on both sides that conflict, and some people are not interested in discussing political issues and they may just see the posters and occasional ad. So most people are not well informed, despite your assertions to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) These forums are wonderfull for discussing issues, there are facts on both sides that conflict, and some people are not interested in discussing political issues and they may just see the posters and occasional ad. So most people are not well informed, despite your assertions to the contrary. That's a good point. But then they might also have believed that they'd suddenly be out of pocket by £4300 per year. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/18/eu-referendum-reality-check-uk-households-worse-off-brexit I'm not clear on how the leave claim is supposed to be different. Only a cursory glance at the referendum debates or literature would be necessary to realise that leaving involved leaving the single market. The Open Britain lies appeared after the vote. Edited January 18, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 That's a good point. But then they might also have believed that they'd suddenly be out of pocket by £4300 per year. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/18/eu-referendum-reality-check-uk-households-worse-off-brexit I'm not clear on how the leave claim is supposed to be different. Only a cursory glance at the referendum debates or literature would be necessary to realise that leaving involved leaving the single market. The Open Britain lies appeared after the vote. Perhaps because the 350m was stated as an absolute, and the Treasury were kind enough to publish their reasonings and methodology so people can look at the details fro themselves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Perhaps because the 350m was stated as an absolute, and the Treasury were kind enough to publish their reasonings and methodology so people can look at the details fro themselves.... The reasoning behind and qualification of, the £350m/week claim was also placed in the public domain. Again, I don't see a huge difference. But I'm not terribly interested in defending this claim. It was misleading at best and they should have used the very nearly as impressive net figures and avoided all this controversy. I take issue with the idea that retaining single market membership was on the table and also with the idea that the leave side was somehow less honest than the remain side. Certainly now, in the post-vote period, I see a very large amount of deceit from the remain hold-outs on the matter of the single market. Edited January 18, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 The reasoning behind and qualification of, the £350m/week claim was also placed in the public domain. Again, I don't see a huge difference. But I'm not terribly interested in defending this claim. It was misleading at best and they should have used the very nearly as impressive net figures and avoided all this controversy. I take issue with the idea that retaining single market membership was on the table and also with the idea that the leave side was somehow less honest than the remain side. Certainly now, in the post-vote period, I see a very large amount of deceit from the remain hold-outs on the matter of the single market. It was? On the side of the bus as well was it? Oh wait, on the website. Assuming you could figure out where to look for it - because they wiped it off when people started asking questions about it. That's academic dishonesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) It was? On the side of the bus as well was it? Oh wait, on the website. Assuming you could figure out where to look for it - because they wiped it off when people started asking questions about it. That's academic dishonesty. There were countless interviews, newspaper articles and TV news pieces discussing the £350m/week claim and it was discussed at length in all the televised debates. Did you see the qualifications and such regarding the £4300/year claim on its billboard? Are you aware that the £4300 figure is a contorted representation of the absolute worst case from the treasury report? Edited January 18, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 It's a value from a treasury report. You can get that report and decide for yourself. The bus? It made a simple statement that we send £350m a week to the EU. That's a simple factual lie. Nothing more or less. You are trying to defend the indefensible and it diminishes you greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) It's a value from a treasury report. You can get that report and decide for yourself. The bus? It made a simple statement that we send £350m a week to the EU. That's a simple factual lie. Nothing more or less. You are trying to defend the indefensible and it diminishes you greatly. I say that both were wrong, not that the leave claim was right. Gisela Stuart defends the claim on the basis that the £350m/week is the amount of money over which we have lost positive control. I find that very dodgy, but I feel the same way about the heavily massaged £4300/year claim. Particularly the way in which the most outlandish prediction they could conjure up is being presented like a solid fact. Edited January 18, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) One of the many things about us leaving the EU is it proves Charles de Gaulle was right all along about the British. He said "NON !", maybe he was wiser than we give him credit for. For those who aren`t students of history, we were keen to join the Common Market back in 1967, CGD said NON ! He warned France's five partners in the European Economic Community (EEC) that if they tried to impose British membership on France it would result in the break-up of the community. Edited January 18, 2017 by Justin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukdobby Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Is that what your 'friend' told you ? No,I'm a bit smarter than him and didn't believe them so voted remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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