The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[andyofborg]

Why would a tax haven automatically mean a sweat shop? It could head offices or nothing more than a PO box like alot of the big boyss do in luxemburg and Jersey (are they sweat shops?). Holland and Ireland dont have high corporation tax rates either, we just need to be a bit below them - and why not?

 

ok, it might not but just being a po box doesn't provide many jobs and the promise to abandon the european social model suggests a move in that direction.

 

If we close ALL the loopholes and drop our corporation tax and we might, MIGHT see an upswing in tax revenue. Lets face it, a large chunk of big corporations use tax havens now or enough flimflamming and loop holes to pay as little as possible anyway. If we start negotiations not wanting much, do you think the EU will go "yeah, thats sounds fair" or do you think theyll want to hammer it down further?

 

we want quite a lot, the sensible people on both sides know that there is more than a hint of mutually assured destruction about this and will want a deal that works for everyone which is doable.

[L00b]

Why would a tax haven automatically mean a sweat shop? It could head offices or nothing more than a PO box like alot of the big boyss do in luxemburg and Jersey (are they sweat shops?). Holland and Ireland dont have high corporation tax rates either, we just need to be a bit below them - and why not?

Much as I suggested to unbeliever earlier on, to research "life for Paddy Public" in Ireland when considering the merits (and otherwise) of a low corporation tax economy, I'd repeat the suggestion to you about "life for Franz Public" in Luxembourg in view of your analogy.

 

Then we can look at the 10s of 1000s of sweating 'frontaliers' who commute for work from France, Belgium and Germany every day as a proportion of the Grand Duchy's total working population. The numbers might shock you

 

And then we can look at minimum skill reqs across all jobs for working there. French, German and English (perfectly written and spoken) are bare minimas for waiting tables or receptioning. Many locals (Lux and immediate border area) have Luxemburger, Portugese and Italian on top, and would pip you with your 'mere' 3 lingos to the post. No kidding.

 

Lastly, you'll want to consider that Ireland and Luxembourg have long been, and are wholly likely to remain, in the EU - with full unfetterred access to the whole Single Market.

 

The UK would have to drop its tax rate kegs well past its ankles -and pass the free lube- to offset that one. andyofborg is spot on, May going for low tax isolation would turn the bulk of the ex-UK (England, after Westminster hands NI to IE and the Scots walk off), basically the world outside London, into a european sweatshop.

Edited January 18, 2017 by L00b

[andyofborg]

If the commons have to use the parliament act to force through an enabling act for article 50, they'll miss the deadline they've set themselves of activating in Q1 of 2017.

 

so? it will only be a few weeks, not bad in the overall government sticking to the timetable stakes.

 

The lords can expect seem payback for that.

 

like what?

 

with everything else going on, starting on wholesale reform of the lords is going to be difficult and opens the way for all sorts of mischief.

 

 

This is all assuming that the Supreme court abandons hundreds of years of UK constitutional convention and says that parliament has to vote on acting on the referendum which it already voted to hold.

 

there isn't hundreds of years of convention about referendums, we've only had three and this one was most definitely advisory.

 

the supreme court will uphold hundreds of years of the rule of law and make it's decision on that basis.

 

for someone who is so obsessed with sovereignty, i would have thought you would be first in the queue for parliament to be involved.

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2017 at 20:43 ----------

 

I can't think of anybody, who I think would be better to be our Prime Minister at the moment.

 

considering the alternatives then you are probably right but that's hardly a glowing recommendation

[L00b]

for someone who is so obsessed with sovereignty, i would have thought you would be first in the queue for parliament to be involved.

Pretty sure I've been over the whole HC/SC thing with unbeliever before, taking care to explain the constitutional ins and outs and reaching the same question as you.

 

Seems it's not sovereignty (see recent argument about illegal tax deals ) nor democracy whenever it's not going their way.

[Jacktari]

Hmm. Most of the journalists who write about such things seem to disagree with you.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/18/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-brexit-pmqs-irony-lady

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global/blog/2017/jan/18/pmqs-verdict-may-sees-off-corbyn-over-brexit

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/18/pmqs-showed-brexit-killing-labour/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/18/tories-pmqs-corbyn-opposition-brexit-theresa-may

 

I guess they're all biased.

 

Why do you think they are biased?

[Flanker7]

The consensus in the press was that May rather demolished her critics in todays PMQs. I tend to agree.

 

It was telling that the only clip shown was when she said "I have a plan. You haven't a clue".

 

So sad that the media thereby encourage this sort of thing. May has been fairly quiet speaking to the press when needed and in a reasonable way.

 

Not like her predecessor who gave a press conference at the drop of a hat, chairing COBRA to bask in the attention. Being a blustering, red faced, insulting, bully who, when the going got tough called a referendum to shut up his critics for a couple of years. Who ran away, despite saying he wouldn't, when he lost - with the words (allegedly) 'I'll be buggered if I'm going to put up with all that sh**'.

 

.......JUST HAD TO GET THAT OFF ME CHEST - RANT OVER.

[Robin-H]

Why do you think they are biased?

 

I don't. I was assuming that anybody who was going to try and refute them all would do so by saying they were biased, which is a usual line of attack. I appreciate that that was unclear.

[Jacktari]

I don't. I was assuming that anybody who was going to try and refute them all would do so by saying they were biased, which is a usual line of attack. I appreciate that that was unclear.

 

You really shouldn't say things you don't mean.

It can lead to confusion.

[tinfoilhat]

Much as I suggested to unbeliever earlier on, to research "life for Paddy Public" in Ireland when considering the merits (and otherwise) of a low corporation tax economy, I'd repeat the suggestion to you about "life for Franz Public" in Luxembourg in view of your analogy.

 

Then we can look at the 10s of 1000s of sweating 'frontaliers' who commute for work from France, Belgium and Germany every day as a proportion of the Grand Duchy's total working population. The numbers might shock you

 

And then we can look at minimum skill reqs across all jobs for working there. French, German and English (perfectly written and spoken) are bare minimas for waiting tables or receptioning. Many locals (Lux and immediate border area) have Luxemburger, Portugese and Italian on top, and would pip you with your 'mere' 3 lingos to the post. No kidding.

 

Lastly, you'll want to consider that Ireland and Luxembourg have long been, and are wholly likely to remain, in the EU - with full unfetterred access to the whole Single Market.

 

The UK would have to drop its tax rate kegs well past its ankles -and pass the free lube- to offset that one. andyofborg is spot on, May going for low tax isolation would turn the bulk of the ex-UK (England, after Westminster hands NI to IE and the Scots walk off), basically the world outside London, into a european sweatshop.

 

Im not widely travelled or widley read in economics - Im hoping Hammond and May are!

 

I take your points though - but given the situation we've put ourselves in, Id be looking at everything.

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2017 at 21:06 ----------

 

ok, it might not but just being a po box doesn't provide many jobs and the promise to abandon the european social model suggests a move in that direction.

 

 

 

we want quite a lot, the sensible people on both sides know that there is more than a hint of mutually assured destruction about this and will want a deal that works for everyone which is doable.

 

Do you think the european social model has helped those at the bottom of the ladder? The voting patterns in the former centres of heavy industry like teeside, south wales etc suggest they are nonplussed with that and/or globalisation in general. Whether theyll be happier with the alternative is unlikely though.

 

I do like the mutally assured destruction bit

[andyofborg]

Do you think the european social model has helped those at the bottom of the ladder?

 

yes, because that's the basis of our and the rest of the eu's welfare state