El Cid Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 The Brexit Blockers will no doubt be relentless in attempting to scupper a meaningful exit from the EU at every turn. They will never be satisfied, regardless of what concessions are given to them. Would you expect them to change their views? They believe we are very much better off inside the EU, just as a socialist will believe in our NHS and trains being run for the people, they will not accept something that they do not agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 IF the Lords send this back three times and then are faced with the Parliament Act it'll be the biggest crisis since the Glourious revolution. I could see the Lords walking out and refusing to sit at that point which would be rather interesting if they just refused to accept anything. I like hyperbole as much as the next man, but forcing the government to use the parliament act to get the article 50 legislation through will be embarrassing for mrs may and her chums but hardly a crisis and certainly not one as big as the Glorious Revolution. ---------- Post added 25-01-2017 at 22:16 ---------- The latest ICM poll (out today) shows a clear majority against a second referendum and also that a clear majority support the PM's Brexit strategy. Given that there seems to be no consensus about what our aspirations of our future relationship with the EU should be then a second referendum does make some sense, The question is, what happens if the deal is rejected.... Mr Fannon seems to want it to be we remain in the EU, as much as that appeals to me, I dont think that would be right. For better or worse, a decision has been taken to leave and so we should do. Given the catastrophe of returning to the default WTO rules then that can't be the alternative either. One thing Mrs May doesn't have any sort of mandate for is turning the country into some sort of offshore tax haven, so perhaps that should be the alternative. Or maybe it should be, go back and try to get a different deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Given that there seems to be no consensus about what our aspirations of our future relationship with the EU should be then a second referendum does make some sense, The question is, what happens if the deal is rejected.... What deal and rejected by who exactly? I think the EU have already made it plain that there will be no deals and that all we will be doing is negotiating the terms and time scale for our exit once A50 is triggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 What do you call the outcome of a negotiation if not a "deal"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 The Brexit Blockers will no doubt be relentless in attempting to scupper a meaningful exit from the EU at every turn. They will never be satisfied, regardless of what concessions are given to them. They demanded a vote before Article 50 was triggered - they will get it; they demanded a White Paper before Article 50 was triggered- they will get it. No doubt they are thinking up other demands too. At some point, a strategy of repeated concessions ceases to be deft political manoeuvring and transmutes into appeasement. No we won't be satisified because something us 'remainers' didn't want to happen and something that we see as massively detrimental to our country is happening. Honestly why do you think we'd ever be satisfied? Are you that deluded? However, there's a huge difference between accepting the vote, and then EXPECTING our laws to be followed in following through with that vote and ever being happy with it. The only reason I don't want another referendum is solely because I think it would divide the country even more than we are today and as I actually try to think of others and the greater good in my politics I'd rather not have that. Unlike the Brexiters who don't seem to give a rats arse about state of the UK as long as they can gloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 What do you call the outcome of a negotiation if not a "deal"?That would depend on whether a negotiation has an outcome. Not all negotiations do In this particular case, unless I am mistaken, I believe that there is consensus between Leavers and Remainers about what the outcome of failed negotiations would be: overnight downgrading to WTO rules with the EU and the rest of the world. About which neither Parliament, nor May's government, nor the electorate if consulted by referendum, could do anything. It's all in the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Quite so. If there is no agreement (transitional or otherwise) between the UK and the rEU, either if our parliament votes it down or because one of the other Eu parliaments does, or because the executives can't reach an agreement to put to their legislatures; etc etc.... Then we go to WTO MFN rules. I don't think that's anything to worry about really, but others I know forcefully disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I like hyperbole as much as the next man, but forcing the government to use the parliament act to get the article 50 legislation through will be embarrassing for mrs may and her chums but hardly a crisis and certainly not one as big as the Glorious Revolution. since I specifically said it wouldn't be as large a crisis as the Glourious revolution I can only conclude that your comments above are the hyperbole you like.... Now if you've quite finished telling lies about what I said perhaps the debate can go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) No we won't be satisified because something us 'remainers' didn't want to happen and something that we see as massively detrimental to our country is happening. Honestly why do you think we'd ever be satisfied? Are you that deluded? However, there's a huge difference between accepting the vote, and then EXPECTING our laws to be followed in following through with that vote and ever being happy with it. The only reason I don't want another referendum is solely because I think it would divide the country even more than we are today and as I actually try to think of others and the greater good in my politics I'd rather not have that. Unlike the Brexiters who don't seem to give a rats arse about state of the UK as long as they can gloat. My bold= A few remainers on here gloat whenever there is any negative news connected to brexit in a "I told you so" kind of way so it's a bit unfair singling out the brexiters. ---------- Post added 26-01-2017 at 10:59 ---------- What do you call the outcome of a negotiation if not a "deal"? "No Deal" is what I would call it.... Edited January 26, 2017 by mafya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 No we won't be satisified because something us 'remainers' didn't want to happen and something that we see as massively detrimental to our country is happening. Honestly why do you think we'd ever be satisfied? Are you that deluded? However, there's a huge difference between accepting the vote, and then EXPECTING our laws to be followed in following through with that vote and ever being happy with it. The only reason I don't want another referendum is solely because I think it would divide the country even more than we are today and as I actually try to think of others and the greater good in my politics I'd rather not have that. Unlike the Brexiters who don't seem to give a rats arse about state of the UK as long as they can gloat. I don't gloat that Brexit won a democratic election. Have you considered the Remainers views on leaving the EU could be wrong when you describe leaving as "massively detrimental to our country." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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