Flexo Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Having the express on my side of this matter is most disturbing. They've been at it for decades! Together with the Telegraph and Daily Mail, they have published hundreds of fake and wildly misleading stories about the European Union. Here's a list! Euromyths A-to-Z Have fun! People who read the list find that the things they believe about the EU are actually totally made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 I've read it several times thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I didn't understand this at all. Is there an English version (or French or German for that matter) for those of us who don't speak Lawyer? You mean, all that arguing for 'sovereignty', and you don't comprehend how it is expressed by your very own Parliament in your centuries-old mother tongue? Surely I didn't just see you ask for French- or German- language equivalents of UK legislation...as provided for every EU legal instrument since the year dot? My irony meter just exploded. Again. I'm not replacing it this time. Even brand-new-delivered-from-the factory, it's a fire hazard most days nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 You mean, all that arguing for 'sovereignty', and you don't comprehend how it is expressed by your very own Parliament in your centuries-old mother tongue? Surely I didn't just see you ask for French- or German- language equivalents of UK legislation...as provided for every EU legal instrument since the year dot? My irony meter just exploded. Again. I'm not replacing it this time. Even brand-new-delivered-from-the factory, it's a fire hazard most days nowadays This is why he's on ignore - I don't have to deal with the explosions of amazement any longer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Parliament is in charge. The bill explicitly overrides existing bills. The EU only has a say because existing bills give it one and those are overridden. Job done. I've been told by pretty much every remainer on here that the UK still has sovereignty even though it is in the EU because it can leave. If this bill doesn't allow us to leave what would? Do we have to repeal the entire 1972 act and leave instantly? I suppose we could use the Vienna convention. What is it you're trying to say? P.S. despite the stereotypes it is possible for a brexiter to learn foreign languages. I just never learned lawyer. Would you understand me if I expressed myself in tensor notation? Edited January 26, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) I remember the massive, unprepossessing and hysterical gloatfest by remainers in the immediate aftermath of the referendum, when remainers were feasting on news of the decline in the stock market and currency, a mood fueled by the various doom-laden forecasts of imminent catastrophe peddled by the Treasury, the Bank of England and a plethora of dodgy 'think tanks. Perhaps Brexiteers can therefore be allowed a smidgeon of gloating, given that the predictions and forecasts of imminent economic catastrophe by the remain side have turned to dust. Except our economy is tanking. Growth predictions down. All growth based solely on a horrendously weak pound so growth that will not last and we haven't actually left yet... ---------- Post added 26-01-2017 at 15:36 ---------- I honestly wonder if our economy tanks (like it already is), if we suffer higher levels of racial hatred crimes, if we lose basic workers rights, will the Brexiters come out and say they were wrong? I don't think any of these things will happen. Sensational reporting in the media sells newspapers and that is all I think this is. But if it does, and bearing in mind the HUGE spike in racist crimes reported in the days after the referendum result and the fact that our growth predictions have just been slashed, would you ever admit you were wrong? Or will you bask in the warm glory of our sovereignty? Edited January 26, 2017 by sgtkate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Was there really a huge spike in racist crimes ? Reported to who ? Were they investigated ? Were they truthfull complaints ? Have you seen any evidence of related court cases ? There are constant opposing reports on how are economy is doing. Sensationalism ! I like your phrase to bask in the warm glory of our sovereignty. Edited January 26, 2017 by harvey19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Parliament is in charge. The bill explicitly overrides existing bills. The EU only has a say because existing bills give it one and those are overridden. Job done. I've been told by pretty much every remainer on here that the UK still has sovereignty even though it is in the EU because it can leave. If this bill doesn't allow us to leave what would? Do we have to repeal the entire 1972 act and leave instantly? No. But the 1972 Act can be repealed; and it will be, once the UK leaves the EU. In the interim, the new Bill- copy below- will, once enacted, enable "Article 50" Notice to be given. ............................................................................................................................................................ European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill (HC Bill 132) A BILL TO Confer power on the Prime Minister to notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU. Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows: 1 Power to notify withdrawal from the EU (1) The Prime Minister may notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU. (2) This section has effect despite any provision made by or under the European Communities Act 1972 or any other enactment. 2 Short title This Act may be cited as the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017. ......................................................................................................................................................... [from http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2016-2017/0132/cbill_2016-20170132_en_2.htm#l1g1] Er, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) I've been told by pretty much every remainer on here that the UK still has sovereignty even though it is in the EU because it can leave.Absolutely correct. But this here remainer(-after a fashion) at least, never told you that it would be easy to leave - which is the topic of relevance with this new draft Bill. If this bill doesn't allow us to leave what would? Do we have to repeal the entire 1972 act and leave instantly?is what I am left wondering after my early analysis above. But too short of time to consider the issue further right now. I suppose we could use the Vienna conventionThe consensus about that currently is, that Article 54 of the Vienna Convention is redundant in view of Article 50 TFEU. What is it you're trying to say?That this draft bill does not appear to be fully or correctly thought through. Possibly, either because it's been rushed for political/media expediency, or because it was drafted pre-SC judgement and not reconsidered in view of it. P.S. despite the stereotypes it is possible for a brexiter to learn foreign languages. I just never learned lawyer. Would you understand me if I expressed myself in tensor notation? After prosecuting a lot of patent applications concerned with vector- and matrix- heavy technical fields (software, high-bandwith storage & telecoms signalling) for over a decade, I just might I'll confess to remembering it taking me a long time to come to grips with three-dimensional RGBA colourspace transforms Edited January 26, 2017 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Was there really a huge spike in racist crimes ? Reported to who ? Were they investigated ? Were they truthfull complaints ? Have you seen any evidence of related court cases ? There are constant opposing reports on how are economy is doing. Sensationalism ! I like your phrase to bask in the warm glory of our sovereignty. Figures released by the police did show a large spike for a couple of days after the result. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crimes-racism-eu-referendum-vote-attacks-increase-police-figures-official-a7358866.html Links from the Indy to the official published results. These are things the police themselves report as crimes, not just things people have reported for which there was no evidence. Only incidents that can be proven took place, whether or not charges were brought, are logged as crimes. So yes, clear evidence of this. The economy is indeed harder to read. One report can say it's all doom and gloom and another can say it's all amazing. I guess it depends on what the person compiling the report thinks is a good economy. It's far more complex than police figures and we could probably spend the rest of the day discussing that alone and get nowhere! Edited January 26, 2017 by sgtkate Improving sentence as it made no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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