retep Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 The insults to anyone are completely unnecessary. All they do is make everyone ignore your points which may well be valid. I am struggling to understand what your issue really is. The figures have come from the police, so are you accusing the police of lying? Or are you saying that the day after Brexit lots of annoyed remain voters made false accusations? For some reason you seem to refuse to say what your position is while throwing accusations at others. I am an ex-Special Constable. I spent quite a few hours on the 'crime line', yep we had to phone someone up and go through the crime report with reasons and so on so I know exactly how it worked until 3 years ago when I left. If things have changed massively since I left then fair enough, but looking at the Home Office page, the guidance seems almost EXACTLY the same as we had. All police forces are under huge pressure to reduce crime figures, and a lot of this is done through careful and precise reporting of crimes and, to be bunt, avoiding criming anything even vaguely dubious. The chances of the police suspending this policy the day after the Brexit vote just to make some bizarre political point is a fairly extreme accusation don't you think? You have heard of Occam's Razor I presume? In which case the first insult came from the troll Cyclone I just returned the favour. I have no issues other than the description of Recording to which I posted links, the second one with the leaflet page 4 explains all simply. Someone reports, the police record, then decide how to treat the report, but it's RECORDED whether false or not. How many of the reports are false you should know being an ex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 In which case the first insult came from the troll Cyclone I just returned the favour. I have no issues other than the description of Recording to which I posted links, the second one with the leaflet page 4 explains all simply. Someone reports, the police record, then decide how to treat the report, but it's RECORDED whether false or not. How many of the reports are false you should know being an ex? I think you're onto a loser with this one, unless of course you want to argue that a wide range of minority groups somehow coalesced some evil masterplan to falsely report hate crimes in order to wound the concept of Brexit. Take a long hard look at what you are arguing here. It's preposterous. ---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 21:24 ---------- well more finance firms seem to be leaving than are arriving I can vouch for this. Loads of companies are looking to move at least some of their operations into the EU. I'm seeing a lot of this in my line of work (data centres) and some companies now have planning at a reasonably advanced stage. Ireland and France are looking like popular destinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 In which case the first insult came from the troll Cyclone I just returned the favour. I have no issues other than the description of Recording to which I posted links, the second one with the leaflet page 4 explains all simply. Someone reports, the police record, then decide how to treat the report, but it's RECORDED whether false or not. How many of the reports are false you should know being an ex? How many did I record when I believed them to be false? None. And that's not because I was somehow amazing, it was simply because we had pressure from senior officers to only RECORD crimes we were sure had happened in the way we were told to make the figures look good. Were things recorded that were not crimes? Probably but I have no way of knowing the figures and neither would anyone else. But if you rang up 999 and claimed someone had made racist comments or attacked you and said racist things while doing it I can guarantee you that if there was no further evidence that it took place then it would NOT be recorded as a crime. However, if someone assaulted you and it was seen on CCTV you have evidence for the assault, if that person claimed the attacker had said racist things making the attack a hate crime but there were no witnesses I'm genuinely not sure how it would be crimed to be honest. It probably would be recorded as a racist attack though. So yes there is the potential for people to claim at attack was racially motivated when it wasn't. However, for your reason to hold true, you'd have needed people to have been assaulted without a racist element to decide en masse to say it was racist and that's just not going to happen is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think you're onto a loser with this one, unless of course you want to argue that a wide range of minority groups somehow coalesced some evil masterplan to falsely report hate crimes in order to wound the concept of Brexit. Take a long hard look at what you are arguing here. It's preposterous. ---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 21:24 ---------- I can vouch for this. Loads of companies are looking to move at least some of their operations into the EU. I'm seeing a lot of this in my line of work (data centres) and some companies now have planning at a reasonably advanced stage. Ireland and France are looking like popular destinations. "Hate crime: the facts behind the headlines Briefing note: October 2016" http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbehindtheheadlines.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/28/hate-crime-horrible-spike-brexit-vote-metropolitan-policel A 'horrible spike' in hate crime after Britain’s vote to leave the European Union was at least partly linked to the referendum, Britain’s most senior police officer has said. Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Metropolitan police commissioner, told a hearing at London’s City Hall that hate crime was showing signs of decreasing after a sharp rise in June and July, but it had still not returned to pre-referendum levels. Monitoring presented at the hearing by the London mayor’s evidence and insight team showed a 16% increase in hate crime in the 12 months to August. It also showed that in the 38 days after the referendum there were more than 2,300 recorded race-hate offences in London, compared with 1,400 in the 38 days before the vote. Hogan-Howe expressed alarm about the figures. “We saw this horrible spike after Brexit,” he said. He revealed there was a connection between the referendum and many of the incidents and pointed out that many of the victims were eastern Europeans. Hogan-Howe said: “We couldn’t say it was absolutely down to Brexit, although there was obviously a spike after it. Some of them were attributed to it because of what was said at the time. We could attribute that, and eastern Europeans were particularly targeted within the race-hate crime [category]. So there certainly was a spike related to it. “We have fortunately seen it start to come back down, but I’m not sure we can say yet it is back to previous levels.” Edited January 27, 2017 by chalga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 In which case the first insult came from the troll Cyclone I just returned the favour. I have no issues other than the description of Recording to which I posted links, the second one with the leaflet page 4 explains all simply. Someone reports, the police record, then decide how to treat the report, but it's RECORDED whether false or not. How many of the reports are false you should know being an ex? I used to work statistics for SYP lo these years ago. You are talking complete and utter cobblers and this is from the guy who wrote the reporting software they still use. IT simply doesnt work the way you describe but hey, keep on digging and making yourslef look foolish wont you... ---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 23:18 ---------- However, if someone assaulted you and it was seen on CCTV you have evidence for the assault, if that person claimed the attacker had said racist things making the attack a hate crime but there were no witnesses I'm genuinely not sure how it would be crimed to be honest. Do they pass the attitude test? If the reporter is trying to big the racial aspect up and egg them on to be sure that it was recorded as a hate crime then it probably wasnt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 "Hate crime: the facts behind the headlines Briefing note: October 2016" http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbehindtheheadlines.pdf That doesn't prove owt. If anything it's damning in that the referendum, with its xenophobic remain campaigns relying heavily on the immigration card, brought into sharp focus what has been happening in this country. The referendum just crystalised it. In a way it's good that the bigots and racists are emerging out of their closets. Better to know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 In which case the first insult came from the troll Cyclone I just returned the favour. Go ahead and quote the insult. Contradicting you is not an insult by the way, particularly when you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I used to work statistics for SYP lo these years ago. You are talking complete and utter cobblers and this is from the guy who wrote the reporting software they still use. IT simply doesnt work the way you describe but hey, keep on digging and making yourslef look foolish wont you... ---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 23:18 ---------- Do they pass the attitude test? If the reporter is trying to big the racial aspect up and egg them on to be sure that it was recorded as a hate crime then it probably wasnt.... Says a lot for the reporting " The first official statistical release was on June 27th by the National Police Chiefs‟ Council (NPCC).35 This release was based solely on incidents reported to the True Vision website.36 This press release was the source of much of the initial reporting of a rise in hate crime. The True Vision website was launched in 2011 and was designed as a resource whereby people could both learn about hate crime and report it. The website was launched and is funded by the NPCC and has the support of every police force in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.37 As well as information on what hate crime is, the website provides channels by which members of the public can report hate crimes. This includes an online form for people to report hate crimes anonymously: such incidents are still recorded and investigated by the police.38 This self-reporting is problematic because anybody could log a hate crime, even if it did not happen, and it would still be recorded. ---------- Post added 28-01-2017 at 10:37 ---------- Go ahead and quote the insult. Contradicting you is not an insult by the way, particularly when you're wrong. "What are you, a variation of an ostrich?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) How many did I record when I believed them to be false? None. And that's not because I was somehow amazing, it was simply because we had pressure from senior officers to only RECORD crimes we were sure had happened in the way we were told to make the figures look good. Were things recorded that were not crimes? Probably but I have no way of knowing the figures and neither would anyone else. But if you rang up 999 and claimed someone had made racist comments or attacked you and said racist things while doing it I can guarantee you that if there was no further evidence that it took place then it would NOT be recorded as a crime. However, if someone assaulted you and it was seen on CCTV you have evidence for the assault, if that person claimed the attacker had said racist things making the attack a hate crime but there were no witnesses I'm genuinely not sure how it would be crimed to be honest. It probably would be recorded as a racist attack though. So yes there is the potential for people to claim at attack was racially motivated when it wasn't. However, for your reason to hold true, you'd have needed people to have been assaulted without a racist element to decide en masse to say it was racist and that's just not going to happen is it? I think in all matters regarding numbers confusion comes from the difference between incident and crime numbers, if one is not aware. ---------- Post added 28-01-2017 at 11:16 ---------- https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/28/hate-crime-horrible-spike-brexit-vote-metropolitan-policel A 'horrible spike' in hate crime after Britain’s vote to leave the European Union was at least partly linked to the referendum, Britain’s most senior police officer has said. Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Metropolitan police commissioner, told a hearing at London’s City Hall that hate crime was showing signs of decreasing after a sharp rise in June and July, but it had still not returned to pre-referendum levels. Monitoring presented at the hearing by the London mayor’s evidence and insight team showed a 16% increase in hate crime in the 12 months to August. It also showed that in the 38 days after the referendum there were more than 2,300 recorded race-hate offences in London, compared with 1,400 in the 38 days before the vote. Hogan-Howe expressed alarm about the figures. “We saw this horrible spike after Brexit,” he said. He revealed there was a connection between the referendum and many of the incidents and pointed out that many of the victims were eastern Europeans. Hogan-Howe said: “We couldn’t say it was absolutely down to Brexit, although there was obviously a spike after it. Some of them were attributed to it because of what was said at the time. We could attribute that, and eastern Europeans were particularly targeted within the race-hate crime [category]. So there certainly was a spike related to it. “We have fortunately seen it start to come back down, but I’m not sure we can say yet it is back to previous levels.” Thank you for the actual figures and time scale. Edited January 28, 2017 by harvey19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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