unbeliever Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) As the main mouthpiece for the disastrous brexit that is about to befall us, can you explain, to a non accountant type person like me, this- I represent only myself on this forum. Other leave supporters do likewise. If you want an official response, you could try writing to Gisela Stuart. All the predictions of disaster so far have been proven to be false. This post is therefore predicated on a false premise. All the same.... You and the government appear to advocate running away from the EU because times , in your view, have got a bit tough. We're not running away. We're leaving in a calm and dignified fashion. They want to form into a single nation and we don't. We're no longer compatible. But when you have taken up with americans, (don't say it is international because it isn't) are you sure things will be better? And when things get tough with them, who are you going to run to next? Our trading relationship with the US is important but we're not joining a political union. You must realise that you cannot keep running away from problems, you must face them one day. We're going back to being a sovereign nation. Like most states. There's no running. We're taking control of, and responsibility for, our own destiny. I'm sorry you don't like it. If you want to be part of the single european nation, you'll now likely miss out. That's sad. Most of us (well over the 52% who voted to leave based on most polling) don't want that. This is a democracy and we're leaving. ---------- Post added 04-02-2017 at 09:59 ---------- In 2013 the net asset were €45 852m Quite. I really don't think this question of division of liabilities will survive the first week of negotiations as our people will simply submit a larger counter-claim for assets. Edited February 4, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 It's a club, not a marriage. When you walk away from a club you lose your rights and responsibilities. Anything else is, in my view, preposterous. You still have to settle up your bills and pay anything that is owed. Its what happens when you terminate any agreement. Not preposterous at all and part of negotiations. ---------- Post added 04-02-2017 at 10:13 ---------- In 2013 the net asset were €45 852m What were the liabilities? they are much more difficult to calculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 You still have to settle up your bills and pay anything that is owed. Its what happens when you terminate any agreement. Not preposterous at all and part of negotiations. You are not allowed to leave owing membership fees. We don't owe any. ---------- Post added 04-02-2017 at 10:20 ---------- What were the liabilities? they are much more difficult to calculate. Excluding of course, the massive liabilities arising from the € crises which are nothing to do with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacktari Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Unbeliever, thankyou for your post, and explaining your position. The problem is, it all sounds very idealistic in its aims and ambitions. If Britain were a new republic, emerging into the world, such aims would be great. But this country has had its days in the sun, when it had all before it. The entire concept of the UK is a creaking anachronism, created as a lash up, 300 years ago. We still hold on to those times in every corner of the system, from the outdated monarchy, to the forced union of unwilling partners. (something brexiters do not seem to be able to see the irony of). This brexit, far from heralding a brave new world, just seems like a tantrum at not been given enough respect, as we see from Farage's embarrassing outbursts. For all the facts and figures bandied about, and the smug, self righteous attitudes of the self styled 'winners', as if it has been a civil war, the country will be a much poorer place, mentally and financially. I just feel that this has let the country down as a whole, and the younger people in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 You are not allowed to leave owing membership fees. We don't owe any. Fact or fiction? Or a prediction dressed up as a fact? You're at it again. We are not talking about membership fees, but long term budgetary commitments to a whole range of funds and projects, things that in or out of the EU are of great benefit to the UK. It makes sense to commit to continuation of already planned funding over a 5-10 year period so that we don't desatbilise our major trading partner. That will also buy goodwill for generations to come. We've got a choice. Scorched earth or to be a good neighbour. Let's be a good neighbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) Unbeliever, thankyou for your post, and explaining your position. The problem is, it all sounds very idealistic in its aims and ambitions. If Britain were a new republic, emerging into the world, such aims would be great. But this country has had its days in the sun, when it had all before it. The entire concept of the UK is a creaking anachronism, created as a lash up, 300 years ago. We still hold on to those times in every corner of the system, from the outdated monarchy, to the forced union of unwilling partners. (something brexiters do not seem to be able to see the irony of). This brexit, far from heralding a brave new world, just seems like a tantrum at not been given enough respect, as we see from Farage's embarrassing outbursts. For all the facts and figures bandied about, and the smug, self righteous attitudes of the self styled 'winners', as if it has been a civil war, the country will be a much poorer place, mentally and financially. I just feel that this has let the country down as a whole, and the younger people in particular. Empire will never come again, nor should it. Maybe Scotland should have gone its own way, but that makes little difference to the matter of Brexit. Farage does not represent me. And whilst I shan't attempt to deny his importance in this matter, I have consistently distanced myself from a lot of what he's said and done. Have a look at Gisela Stuart's writings, interviews, debates and speeches on this matter if you're interested in a reasoned and informed pro-Brexit perspective. A socialist/left, immigrant, intelligent and honest Brexit supporter who was the person actually in charge of the leave campaign and is so far from your caricature of a Brexiter that you'll probably need to sit down. ---------- Post added 04-02-2017 at 10:32 ---------- Fact or fiction? Or a prediction dressed up as a fact? You're at it again. We are not talking about membership fees, but long term budgetary commitments to a whole range of funds and projects, things that in or out of the EU are of great benefit to the UK. It makes sense to commit to continuation of already planned funding over a 5-10 year period so that we don't desatbilise our major trading partner. That will also but goodwill for generations to come. We've got a choice. Scorched earth or to be a good neighbour. Let's be a good neighbour. After leaving we shall be taking nothing out and putting nothing in. We shall surrender our claim on common assets and abdicate our responsibility for shared liabilities. There's no "scorched" anything and I am very keen that we shall be a good neighbour. The EU are just manufacturing a bargaining chip. It will quietly disappear once the real negotiations start. I have made no attempt to present my opinions as facts. You can obviously see the difference between me saying what I think will happen and economists' modelling being presented as if it were empirical data. Edited February 4, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 You are not allowed to leave owing membership fees. We don't owe any. ---------- Post added 04-02-2017 at 10:20 ---------- Excluding of course, the massive liabilities arising from the € crises which are nothing to do with us. We will have our own lawyers, accountants and experts who will deide what we do and do not owe. I'm sure they will sort it out or go to the courts if they absolutely have to. I will wait and see to what liabilities are raised and why we should pay. I think its a litle more complicated than being in a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 We will have our own lawyers, accountants and experts who will deide what we do and do not owe. I'm sure they will sort it out or go to the courts if they absolutely have to. I will wait and see to what liabilities are raised and why we should pay. I think its a litle more complicated than being in a club. I agree that it is complicated. I do think the the club analogy is more appropriate than the marriage analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I agree that it is complicated. I do think the the club analogy is more appropriate than the marriage analogy. I would think its more like a joint venture. I'm sure the hundreds of people that will be working on it will hammer soemthing out. i disagree with your idea of being able to just stop paying and walk away its a lot more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 I would think its more like a joint venture. I'm sure the hundreds of people that will be working on it will hammer soemthing out. i disagree with your idea of being able to just stop paying and walk away its a lot more complicated than that. Legally I'm pretty sure that is absolutely what we can do. It's not impossible that we might do otherwise if it's clear that we'd hurt our European friends by doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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