The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[truman]

If taken at their face value, the figures show that younger, more educated voters were more likely to vote remain. However, to interpret this to mean that leave voters are ignorant and stupid may fit the bigoted narrative of remainers, but is a ridiculous inference to draw.

 

What should be taken into account is that most older voters never had the opportunity to go to university to attain academic qualifications (whereas now virtually anyone with an IQ above the level of an amoeba can gain entry to the groves of academe and attain graduate status). Older voters, on leaving school, became tradesmen, businessmen, administrators, managers, factory workers etc. are likely to be just as bright as those of a younger generation and just as, if not more, knowledgeable about world affairs, based on a lifetime's experience.

 

Are these the same people that voted us into the EU in the first place?

Edited February 7, 2017 by truman

[NigelFargate]

Are these the same people that voted us into the EU in the first place?

 

No one voted us into the 'EU', because the EU did not then exist. We joined the European Economic Community in 1973 (without a vote). The EEC at the time basically consisted of the Customs Union, the Common Agricultural Policy and a small number of structural funds. It was nothing like the bloated, autocratic organisational monstrosity it later became. There was no elected parliament, no qualified majority voting and no formal European Council, no Schengen zone, no single currency and no de facto free movement. Moreover, our entry negotiations were bungled by the Conservative government led by Edward Heath, leading to the UK being forced to pay large amounts into the EEC budget for little return, even though we were one of the poorest member states at the time.

[Jacktari]

No one voted us into the 'EU', because the EU did not then exist. We joined the European Economic Community in 1973 (without a vote). The EEC at the time basically consisted of the Customs Union, the Common Agricultural Policy and a small number of structural funds. It was nothing like the bloated, autocratic organisational monstrosity it later became. There was no elected parliament, no qualified majority voting and no formal European Council, no Schengen zone, no single currency and no de facto free movement. Moreover, our entry negotiations were bungled by the Conservative government led by Edward Heath, leading to the UK being forced to pay large amounts into the EEC budget for little return, even though we were one of the poorest member states at the time.

 

The EEC and the EU are capitalist cartels, created for one purpose, to create wealth for the capitalist, whilst keeping the working peoples conditions as poor as possible.

This is why I voted against entry all those years ago.

 

However, as it has grown over the years, the power base has shifted slightly in favour of the workers, and society.

 

We have far better and vastly improved working terms and conditions from those days, and the environmental factors have also improved enormously.

 

This is why the right wing wants us to leave, to turn the clock back to those days when we had hardly any protection.

 

Whereas in the 70's it was the rightwing who wanted to join, and the left wing who did not, we now have the left wing wanting to remain, and the right wing wanting to leave.

 

It is nothing to do with age, it is to do with political awareness. Now, as it was then

[truman]

The EEC and the EU are capitalist cartels, created for one purpose, to create wealth for the capitalist, whilst keeping the working peoples conditions as poor as possible.

This is why I voted against entry all those years ago.

 

However, as it has grown over the years, the power base has shifted slightly in favour of the workers, and society.

 

We have far better and vastly improved working terms and conditions from those days, and the environmental factors have also improved enormously.

 

This is why the right wing wants us to leave, to turn the clock back to those days when we had hardly any protection.

 

Whereas in the 70's it was the rightwing who wanted to join, and the left wing who did not, we now have the left wing wanting to remain, and the right wing wanting to leave.

 

It is nothing to do with age, it is to do with political awareness. Now, as it was then

 

Can you back this with fact rather than opinion?

[sgtkate]

That is well balanced?

 

Better than 'it's FAAAAAAAAAKE'. Well balanced for a uneducated Brexiter. :hihi::hihi:

[L00b]

Can you back this with fact rather than opinion?

To be brutally honest, why would Jacktari bother?

 

Every time someone of either side calls for supporting facts, and they get duly posted/linked, the other side either ignores them and swiftly shifts the debate onto a different (already long well-trodden) angle, or queries their factuality (Exhibit A: harvey19, though that's the latest example, far from being the only one).

 

Objectively, what is the point of continuing to discuss things now, 1000s and 1000s of posts in, pre- and post-referendum?

 

The debate is just getting ever more sterile and circular, the only increasing constant, here and IRL, is the divisiveness.

 

Jaw-jaw is done. Time to party for the Leavers, time to move on for the Remainers (and preferably out for the Muslims, gays, intellectuals, liberals, EU nationals, <etc.>...for their own sake).

[Obelix]

Can you back this with fact rather than opinion?

 

I can torpedo it with facts I know that much.

 

I must have missed the EU introducing the Working Time Directive and all it's safety legislation since the 1970's, and the UK removing all the union laws and making them less effective since the 1970's.

 

As well as the large rise in real living conditions for all since then too...

 

---------- Post added 07-02-2017 at 12:28 ----------

 

(and preferably out for the Muslims, gays, intellectuals, liberals, EU nationals, <etc.>...for their own sake).

 

Already gone I'll let you decide which of those I am...

[melthebell]

I can torpedo it with facts I know that much.

 

I must have missed the EU introducing the Working Time Directive and all it's safety legislation since the 1970's, and the UK removing all the union laws and making them less effective since the 1970's.

 

As well as the large rise in real living conditions for all since then too...

 

---------- Post added 07-02-2017 at 12:28 ----------

 

 

Already gone I'll let you decide which of those I am...

you're obviously a Gaul

[Jacktari]

Can you back this with fact rather than opinion?

 

No, it is personal observation.

There will be facts and figures aplenty somewhere.

 

You can call me from hill to burn, but it makes no difference to the fact that the people of this country have made a terrible mistake, as have the people of the USA.

 

I feel the leaders of all hues have let the young people down badly and inexcusably, and I hope you who support them can live with your error.

 

I feel there will be many mea-culpas to be said over the next few decades.

 

---------- Post added 07-02-2017 at 12:48 ----------

 

I can torpedo it with facts I know that much.

 

I must have missed the EU introducing the Working Time Directive and all it's safety legislation since the 1970's, and the UK removing all the union laws and making them less effective since the 1970's.

 

As well as the large rise in real living conditions for all since then too...

 

---------- Post added 07-02-2017 at 12:28 ----------

 

 

Already gone I'll let you decide which of those I am...

That is exactly what I said. Why do you want to torpedo it?

[L00b]

Already gone I'll let you decide which of those I am...

Some I know are, but most I know aren't yet (though they're certainly busy making contingency plans).

 

I'm interviewing in the Netherlands later this month, will then decide whether I'm sticking with the current UK bunch and opening their EU branch, or just walking out on them entirely

Edited February 7, 2017 by L00b