Obelix Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 you're obviously a Gaul Mel! Go wash your mouth with soap for even suggesting such a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The EEC and the EU are capitalist cartels, created for one purpose, to create wealth for the capitalist, whilst keeping the working peoples conditions as poor as possible. This is why I voted against entry all those years ago. What vote was that then? Harold Wilson's government never gave the people a vote on entering the EEC. It is nothing to do with age, it is to do with political awareness. Now, as it was then Its neither as if it was then all those intelligent people in Parliament, and also David Cameron would have made sure their referendum act was worded and debated correctly. These intelligent people just passed it and failed to take into account the might and will of the people to vote leave. It seems intelligence and education didn't have much to do with all that. Just look at the timeline and what has happened since. Cameron brings in a referendum act, that gets passed without much debate or amendments. The people vote and the result is not what should have happened. Some intelligent people take the government to court thinking it will make a difference to the outcome. The intelligent people sitting in judgement proclaim that parliament are supreme and must be consulted on triggering A50 and that's all. Now new statistics claim to support that it was the dim witted people who were likely to vote leave. To me it seems like there is no end of malice towards those who voted leave because although it was democratic the minority still don't like the outcome. Maybe we can have some statistics on the intelligence of people who are likely to vote Labour, Conservative or LibDem in a general election and see what that also come out at. ---------- Post added 07-02-2017 at 13:56 ---------- I feel the leaders of all hues have let the young people down badly and inexcusably, and I hope you who support them can live with your error. But it was those intelligent leaders who were in-charge was it not? No one let the young people down except themselves by not voting when they could, not a very intelligent decision was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 To be brutally honest, why would Jacktari bother? Every time someone of either side calls for supporting facts, and they get duly posted/linked, the other side either ignores them and swiftly shifts the debate onto a different (already long well-trodden) angle, or queries their factuality (Exhibit A: harvey19, though that's the latest example, far from being the only one). Objectively, what is the point of continuing to discuss things now, 1000s and 1000s of posts in, pre- and post-referendum? The debate is just getting ever more sterile and circular, the only increasing constant, here and IRL, is the divisiveness. Jaw-jaw is done. Time to party for the Leavers, time to move on for the Remainers (and preferably out for the Muslims, gays, intellectuals, liberals, EU nationals, <etc.>...for their own sake). I question how impartial and balanced are some"facts" People tend to repeat things without questioning how they were gathered. It all depends which questions are or are not asked. Opinion poles are notoriously wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I question how impartial and balanced are some "facts"Facts are always impartial and balanced: they're just facts. It's how facts are presented and/or perceived, which can be partial and unbalanced. But never facts themselves. A poll is always factual, insofar as the polled sample is concerned. If 100 people are polled about a preference for black or white, and 52 people says black and 48 people say white, it is a fact that the question is about a preference for black or white and it is equally a fact that 52% of the sample prefer black and 48% prefer white. It is the extrapolation of the poll results to a wider sample/population and its presentation, which can lose those facts impartiality and balance. That can range from e.g. "52% of the <local, regional, national, global population> prefer black" to "most people dislike white" and everything in between, subject to the writer's agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacktari Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 What vote was that then? Harold Wilson's government never gave the people a vote on entering the EEC. I thought it was the tories under Ted Heath. Its always the tories isn't it? Always trying to make people lives worse than they need to be. Congenital busy-bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I thought it was the tories under Ted Heath. Its always the tories isn't it? Always trying to make people lives worse than they need to be. Congenital busy-bodies. Wilson tried to get us in in 1967 but his application was unsuccessful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I thought it was the tories under Ted Heath. Its always the tories isn't it? Always trying to make people lives worse than they need to be. Congenital busy-bodies. Opps, my mistake getting mixed up as it was indeed the Tories under Ted Heath that entered us in. In any-case the public were not given a vote in the matter of joining only later on the matter of remaining. What is strange is that both referendums were advisory but in the 1975 one it was widely accepted that the vote would be the final say on the matter. With this one somehow people think it different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacktari Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Opps, my mistake getting mixed up as it was indeed the Tories under Ted Heath that entered us in. In any-case the public were not given a vote in the matter of joining only later on the matter of remaining. What is strange is that both referendums were advisory but in the 1975 one it was widely accepted that the vote would be the final say on the matter. With this one somehow people think it different. It may have been tolerated, but it wasn't accepted. You are forgetting that it is a capitalist cartel. Why the right wing is against it has not been fully explained. I only began to accept it after things such as the working hours directive, and the many HS improvements made thing s better for the working people. Also, over time, I began to feel at one with Europe, instead of being the outsider in all things. We will miss a great deal in our daily lives, and be the poorer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I still have difficulty reconciling the governments stance. The vote was 52 to 48, hardly a landslide. Yet they keep going about 'the will of the people'. Yes, that's how democracy works: the winner wins. See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 It may have been tolerated, but it wasn't accepted. You are forgetting that it is a capitalist cartel. Why the right wing is against it has not been fully explained. I only began to accept it after things such as the working hours directive, and the many HS improvements made thing s better for the working people. Also, over time, I began to feel at one with Europe, instead of being the outsider in all things. We will miss a great deal in our daily lives, and be the poorer for it. Stiff upper lip and welcome the new dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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