Jacktari Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Stain was an internationalist and a socialist. He was not a Fascist. Much like the ethos which drives the EU, but with a lot more narcism and genocide. Yes I do respect the people. I lost the AV referendum. I accept the will of the people and I no longer argue for its implementation, nor for PR which is in my view rejected by association. It's not what I would have chosen, but Vox Populi Vox Dei. Stalin was as much a socialist as you or me. Regarding your main point, I never took you for a surrender monkey. You give the attitude of a man of principle. I would argue for it to the death, if I truly believed in it. It shows you should never take people at face value, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Yes I do respect the people. I lost the AV referendum. I accept the will of the people and I no longer argue for its implementation, nor for PR which is in my view rejected by association. It's not what I would have chosen, but Vox Populi Vox Dei. You think that because a vote is lost once you can't continue to try to argue for it??? On that basis we would only have 1 political party, after a single loss the others would have to cease to exist... ---------- Post added 10-02-2017 at 14:35 ---------- No I accept that a functional democracy must be careful not a trample on the minority. But in the case of a simple binary choice like Brexit there is no valid compromise. It should never have been offered on a simple majority referendum of course. And there are of course compromise positions, the so called "hard brexit" versus more sensibly negotiated positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Stalin was as much a socialist as you or me. Regarding your main point, I never took you for a surrender monkey. You give the attitude of a man of principle. I would argue for it to the death, if I truly believed in it. It shows you should never take people at face value, I suppose. It's called democracy. You simply have to accept the principle that the collective will of the people is more valid than your own wishes. ---------- Post added 10-02-2017 at 14:36 ---------- It should never have been offered on a simple majority referendum of course. And there are of course compromise positions, the so called "hard brexit" versus more sensibly negotiated positions. The people themselves account for the damage of flip-flopping in deciding how to vote. We entered under a simple majority vote over 40 years ago, I don't see why we shouldn't leave under one. The compromises under discussion are not meaningful in my view. Single market membership is de-facto EU membership. ---------- Post added 10-02-2017 at 14:38 ---------- The mantra of Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin et al...... I know you don't read my posts, as we've rather fallen out over this Brexit matter, but on general principle I have to give this post a double :thumbsup:. Edited February 10, 2017 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 On the contrary, people will vote for things that somehow provide them with advantage (or they think will) at a cost to the rest of the country. I don't for 1 minute believe that most voters vote with the best interests of the country in mind. But surely only the immensely foolish would believe that they can somehow excel while their country falls apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 No, I expect that those with a reasonable amount of capital can exploit the situation to make themselves considerably richer at the expense of everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 But surely only the immensely foolish would believe that they can somehow excel while their country falls apart? Quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Unbeliever. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168657/signatures/new Show your support for proportional representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 No, I expect that those with a reasonable amount of capital can exploit the situation to make themselves considerably richer at the expense of everyone else. That doesn't sound plausible to me at all. This was a razor tight and fiercely contested campaign with strong arguments and powerful people on both sides. ---------- Post added 10-02-2017 at 14:45 ---------- Unbeliever. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168657/signatures/new Show your support for proportional representation. In good conscience I can't. We lost this one already. These decisions should stick for at least a generation before they're reviewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I'm genuinely intrigued. Why do you believe that we can only support an idea if it's not been publicly tested in the last generation? This is just bizarre. ---------- Post added 10-02-2017 at 14:47 ---------- That doesn't sound plausible to me at all. This was a razor tight and fiercely contested campaign with strong arguments and powerful people on both sides. Which doesn't in the slightest alter that the rich can make use of the situation to get richer, whilst the majority of those who voted to leave (the poor or poorer, and yes, we all know that can be proven) will be the ones to suffer. Turkeys voting for xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 I'm genuinely intrigued. Why do you believe that we can only support an idea if it's not been publicly tested in the last generation? This is just bizarre. My conscience requires me to respect the peoples' choice. I can see how reasonable people might not see such things the same way, so I don't mean to insult your integrity. ---------- Post added 10-02-2017 at 14:50 ---------- Which doesn't in the slightest alter that the rich can make use of the situation to get richer, whilst the majority of those who voted to leave (the poor or poorer, and yes, we all know that can be proven) will be the ones to suffer. Turkeys voting for xmas. I think that the poor (and in fact almost everybody) will in fact benefit. I know that you disagree. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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