tzijlstra Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 (edited) Is it possible to have a soft Brexit without the UK contributing to the EU coffers, without having to accept the free movement of people and without having to adhere to all their regulations and laws? Is it possible to have a hard Brexit guaranteeing any of those things? It might be in the strict sovereign terms you demand, but a hard Brexit whereby the economy does not collapse like a house of cards still requires immigration, the exporting businesses you are pinning your hopes on still require compliance with EU regulations and laws, to facilitate relations the UK will still be required to contribute to the EU coffers, just as other nations desiring intense trading with the Union do. To add to that - Yesterday's fawned outrage with the High Court just shows that people seem to be yearning for a destruction of democracy, rather than a believe in sovereignty. The rule of law has been checked forever, what I read in the newspapers yesterday was eerily close to the sort of propagandistic nonsense you would find in dictatorial nations. Yesterday, and this one is more for Unbeliever, the UK and global community, ratified the treaty of Paris, sticking to the 2 degree global temperature increase rule. Nothing to do with the EU, it is a global agreement because the world is global and the UK is part of that globe. Leaving the EU is not going to change that. Edited November 5, 2016 by tzijlstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 Yesterday, and this one is more for Unbeliever, the UK and global community, ratified the treaty of Paris, sticking to the 2 degree global temperature increase rule. Nothing to do with the EU, it is a global agreement because the world is global and the UK is part of that globe. Leaving the EU is not going to change that. I'm fine with that. Especially as out of the EU we shall be able to decide as a nation what technologies to use to achieve it. The 3 basic options being nuclear, CCS and renewables. The EU would insist in renewables which is the most expensive and poorest quality option. Now that won't be our problem. Notice that Sterling's recovering a little in the last few days. Might be something to do with the promise not cut further hose the economy with cheap credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I'm fine with that. Especially as out of the EU we shall be able to decide as a nation what technologies to use to achieve it. The 3 basic options being nuclear, CCS and renewables. The EU would insist in renewables which is the most expensive and poorest quality option. Now that won't be our problem. No it wouldn't... I've already explained this to you on repeated occasions; the EU lets the member states decide how to achieve a reduction in CO2. Did you hear the EU moan about the Hinckley nuclear plant? No, because it is fine with that being the option. It is, and always was, down to the member states. Just because the government at the time decided the UK should aim for renewable does not mean the EU told the government that was what it had to do. France runs 90% nuclear, the EU isn't telling France to shut down plants, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Notice that Sterling's recovering a little in the last few days. Might be something to do with the promise not cut further hose the economy with cheap credit. Nothing to do with cheap credit but with Thursday's High Court ruling and Trump narrowing Clinton's lead in opinion polls. In other words right wing nutters weaken their own currencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Is it possible to have a hard Brexit guaranteeing any of those things? It might be in the strict sovereign terms you demand, but a hard Brexit whereby the economy does not collapse like a house of cards still requires immigration, the exporting businesses you are pinning your hopes on still require compliance with EU regulations and laws, to facilitate relations the UK will still be required to contribute to the EU coffers, just as other nations desiring intense trading with the Union do. To add to that - Yesterday's fawned outrage with the High Court just shows that people seem to be yearning for a destruction of democracy, rather than a believe in sovereignty. The rule of law has been checked forever, what I read in the newspapers yesterday was eerily close to the sort of propagandistic nonsense you would find in dictatorial nations. Yesterday, and this one is more for Unbeliever, the UK and global community, ratified the treaty of Paris, sticking to the 2 degree global temperature increase rule. Nothing to do with the EU, it is a global agreement because the world is global and the UK is part of that globe. Leaving the EU is not going to change that. Nice avoidance and yes it is, its not possible to have soft brexit without paying into the EU, allowing free movement and adhering to all their regulation, therefor its not possible for anyone that voted leave to believe they were voting for anything other than a full brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I thought I'd check back in and cheer myself up reading posts from the Remain moaners... you never disappoint! You just don't get how fed up people are at a liberal political elite that ignore and dismiss their views and concerns do you? You still want to dismiss the vote to leave the EU because you believe the great unwashed and uneducated have been duped and it is the duty of you Superiors to save them from themselves. But as you try to educate the cretinous creatures - using words of no more than two syllables so as not too confuse them further - your contempt and disdain is plain to see. And that is your downfall. The contempt you have shown is now being reciprocated. Every time you open your gobs to make an argument you actually strengthen the resolve of those you need to convince to do the exact opposite. If you hate it, they love it. Your misery is their joy. It is pay back time. The best thing Remainers could do now would be to shut up, accept the result and make the best of it. But you can't help yourselves and your self-destructive hissy fits are both counterproductive and a complete joy to behold! I thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Nice avoidance and yes it is, its not possible to have soft brexit without paying into the EU, allowing free movement and adhering to all their regulation, therefor its not possible for anyone that voted leave to believe they were voting for anything other than a full brexit. Avoidance of what? Also - is that in the same way that everybody apparently was aware that the 350 million lie was a lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Avoidance of what? Also - is that in the same way that everybody apparently was aware that the 350 million lie was a lie? You avoided answering the question by asking one of your own which I answered. ---------- Post added 05-11-2016 at 09:02 ---------- I thought I'd check back in and cheer myself up reading posts from the Remain moaners... you never disappoint! You just don't get how fed up people are at a liberal political elite that ignore and dismiss their views and concerns do you? You still want to dismiss the vote to leave the EU because you believe the great unwashed and uneducated have been duped and it is the duty of you Superiors to save them from themselves. But as you try to educate the cretinous creatures - using words of no more than two syllables so as not too confuse them further - your contempt and disdain is plain to see. And that is your downfall. The contempt you have shown is now being reciprocated. Every time you open your gobs to make an argument you actually strengthen the resolve of those you need to convince to do the exact opposite. If you hate it, they love it. Your misery is their joy. It is pay back time. The best thing Remainers could do now would be to shut up, accept the result and make the best of it. But you can't help yourselves and your self-destructive hissy fits are both counterproductive and a complete joy to behold! I thank you. Your posts are always a joy to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 No it wouldn't... I've already explained this to you on repeated occasions; the EU lets the member states decide how to achieve a reduction in CO2. Did you hear the EU moan about the Hinckley nuclear plant? No, because it is fine with that being the option. It is, and always was, down to the member states. Just because the government at the time decided the UK should aim for renewable does not mean the EU told the government that was what it had to do. France runs 90% nuclear, the EU isn't telling France to shut down plants, is it? Actually it is. They're required to have 20% renewables, as are we. I did post the EU renewable energy directive. Did you read it? You can get away with only reading the first page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Is it possible to have a soft Brexit without the UK contributing to the EU coffers, without having to accept the free movement of people and without having to adhere to all their regulations and laws? i think the answer, is that it depends on the exact nature of the deal. a deal which offers tariff low/free trade without accepting the free movement of people is certainly a possibility. though whether that will significantly affect the level of immigration is very much open to question. there are a number of cross EU projects and frameworks over and above trade related ones, which we should remain in and that will probably require some contribution to their budgets. if we want to trade and interact with the EU then we have no option but to adhere to some of their regulations and laws. even with a hard brexit, then all the above applies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts