unbeliever Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 (edited) The current polls are suggesting a slight majority for remain. It was always close. If we voted again it would be close. The point is that there is no massive groundswell for leaving, and that a lot of people have serious concerns. Forcing hard Brexit on us without democratic oversight would be wrong. To understand how wrong it would be consider if remain had polled the most votes in June, and a PM had then interpreted that as a green light for 'hard remain' and adoption of Schengen, commitment to joining the Euro etc... Brexiters would be up in arms telling us how undemocratic that was. Once again. The PM himself and many other from both sides were absolutely explicit that we would be leaving the customs union and the EU internal market. Who could possible have spoken with more authority than the head of government, what government policy would be in the event of a leave vote? What more do you need? Should it have been carved on the moon? Edited November 5, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmurtdlanod1 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 we knew it was a lie, we were just aghast that the leavers would use it because we knew some, definitely not all, people would either believe it or at least expect some significant increase in funding for the NHS thats utter rubbish, remainers have used it as stick to beat the leave campaign and a pretty weak stick at that, anyone can read that as a suggestion?? well unless you are really thick:roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 we knew it was a lie, we were just aghast that the leavers would use it because we knew some, definitely not all, people would either believe it or at least expect some significant increase in funding for the NHS Its the remainers that were conned into believing a vote to remain was a vote to reform the EU, and we all know that was a lie, how many people voted to remain because they feared losing £4K a year, or feared a house price crash, or feared WWW3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 The one thing people wouldn't have contemplated when they voted leave is the anger from the in side, and the uncertainty that is being generated by the remoaners resistance to change. i'm on the in side and i'm not angry, I don't think many are. the only people generating uncertainty is the government because they aren't displaying any sign of having a plan. that is leaving a void and that void is being filled by all sorts of rabble from both sides. it's quite understandable there isn't any sign of a plan since the furore over nissan shows that the harder sorts of brexit are going to cause significant damage to the economy, both ours and the EU's and the softer sorts of brexit are unacceptable to the shouty folk. all the original vote and subsequent polls shows that the country is split 50-50 on the issue and remains so. i doubt anyone can put together a plan which pleases everyone so it makes sense to go for the plan which causes little damage to the economy. i'm confident we can put together a deal which offers barrier free(ish) trade with the EU and keeps us in some of the cross EU projects like horizon2020 and that will mean we have to contribute some dosh but overall it would be worth it. we could, of course, abandon a deal with the EU and focus on free trade deals with other countries but one of the few sensible things which have come from Trump's campaign is the focus on the loss of jobs from the US to other economies. In many ways, what else comes with the EU puts a floor (perhaps a wobbly one but none the less a floor) under this effect. These trade deals we sign are likely to cause the same effect but with no floor. Liam Fox and his chums do not offer salvation to the brexit voter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 i'm on the in side and i'm not angry, I don't think many are. the only people generating uncertainty is the government because they aren't displaying any sign of having a plan. that is leaving a void and that void is being filled by all sorts of rabble from both sides. it's quite understandable there isn't any sign of a plan since the furore over nissan shows that the harder sorts of brexit are going to cause significant damage to the economy, both ours and the EU's and the softer sorts of brexit are unacceptable to the shouty folk. all the original vote and subsequent polls shows that the country is split 50-50 on the issue and remains so. i doubt anyone can put together a plan which pleases everyone so it makes sense to go for the plan which causes little damage to the economy. i'm confident we can put together a deal which offers barrier free(ish) trade with the EU and keeps us in some of the cross EU projects like horizon2020 and that will mean we have to contribute some dosh but overall it would be worth it. we could, of course, abandon a deal with the EU and focus on free trade deals with other countries but one of the few sensible things which have come from Trump's campaign is the focus on the loss of jobs from the US to other economies. In many ways, what else comes with the EU puts a floor (perhaps a wobbly one but none the less a floor) under this effect. These trade deals we sign are likely to cause the same effect but with no floor. Liam Fox and his chums do not offer salvation to the brexit voter. The government do have a plan but the remoaners are doing everything in their power to stop them implementing it. The uncertainty is being generated by the remoaners and their insistence that we do it their way or no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Its the remainers that were conned into believing a vote to remain was a vote to reform the EU, and we all know that was a lie, I recently read that the UK has tried to reform the EU on over 70 occasions in the past and failed on all of those 70 occasions because the majority voted against the reforms. (Will try to find the article.) Even Cameron's latest negotiations failed and amounted to nothing despite claiming it was a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 The majority voted for hard brexit, there is no escaping that fact do you have a poll which demonstrates that? the out camp said we would repatriate all the money we send, bring back all law making to the UK and control immigration, non of which will be possible with the soft brexit cleggy wants. why is it not possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 do you have a poll which demonstrates that? I dont think that one is needed as I dont think the term was ever used until after the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 do you have a poll which demonstrates that? why is it not possible? We have the result of the referendum and the campaigns from each sides which made it clear that a vote to leave was a vote for hard brexit, hard brexit being controlling immigration by leaving the single market, repatriating all our law making and money. If it's possible for the government to keep us in the single market whilst repatriating all the money we send, repatriating our law making, and stopping the free movement of people then I can't see why anyone would have a problem with letting the government get on with the negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 The government do have a plan but the remoaners are doing everything in their power to stop them implementing it. The uncertainty is being generated by the remoaners and their insistence that we do it their way or no way. what is the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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