Lower benefits cap

[Petminder]

With all due respect, what you argue isn't going to really convince me, I would like to see some supporting facts and figures.

 

I'm not claiming that there isn't anybody who isn't stressed and anxious because of uncertain employment, or unemployment, only that the figures don't suggest that the rise in people reporting to have mental health issues is because of that.

 

Firstly, unemployment is at a record low, so you cannot equate the rise in mental health issues to a rise in unemployment.

 

As the other figures I posted show, people who are self employed are just (if not more) satisfied with their jobs than people in full employment. That is also true for people on zero hour contracts (stats for which I have posted here before).

 

Figures actually suggest that the rise is because of much more young people (particularly girls) are either having, or reporting to have, issues. Rather than uncertain employment being the cause, it is thought to be largely due to pressures caused by social media, something that didn't really exist 20, or even 10, years ago.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2016 at 14:24 ----------

 

 

Are you refuting that only a small number of total benefit claimants will be affected by the cap (as most receive much less), or do you agree that that is a fact? If you are refuting it, I would like to see your figures.

 

How many claim the maximum and how many claim much less?

 

A google search tells me that the new lower benefit cap will affect 116,000 families, it might be your opinion that 116,000 is a small number but in my opinion it is a large number.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Petminder

[Anna B]

With all due respect, what you argue isn't going to really convince me, I would like to see some supporting facts and figures.

 

I'm not claiming that there isn't anybody who isn't stressed and anxious because of uncertain employment, or unemployment, only that the figures don't suggest that the rise in people reporting to have mental health issues is because of that.

 

Firstly, unemployment is at a record low, so you cannot equate the rise in mental health issues to a rise in unemployment.

 

As the other figures I posted show, people who are self employed are just (if not more) satisfied with their jobs than people in full employment. That is also true for people on zero hour contracts (stats for which I have posted here before).

 

Figures actually suggest that the rise is because of much more young people (particularly girls) are either having, or reporting to have, issues. Rather than uncertain employment being the cause, it is thought to be largely due to pressures caused by social media, something that didn't really exist 20, or even 10, years ago.

 

Facts and figures can be manipulated to prove or disprove anything.

 

To be honest, I don't think anything, short of having first hand experience of it, would convince you, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

[Robin-H]

How many claim the maximum and how many claim much less?

 

DWP say that (as of Feb 2015) around 5 million people in the UK were claiming welfare benefits.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456074/nino-registrations-adult-overseas-nationals-june-2015.pdf

 

I don't think there is a definitive figure for the number of people who are currently claiming over £20,000 (or £23,000 in London) and do not have exemptions (such as disability) and so will be affected by the cap.

 

I've seen figures from 88,000 to 250,000 - either way they are both a small percentage of the total number of people claiming benefits.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2016 at 15:47 ----------

 

How many claim the maximum and how many claim much less?

 

A google search tells me that the new lower benefit cap will affect 116,000 families, it might be your opinion that 116,000 is a small number but in my opinion it is a large number.

 

We are not debating whether or not 116,000 is a small or large number - it is whether it is a small or large proportion of the total number of benefit claimants.

 

As the total number is 5 million, and so that equates to just over 2%, you must agree that is a small proportion..

[Petminder]

DWP say that (as of Feb 2015) around 5 million people in the UK were claiming welfare benefits.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456074/nino-registrations-adult-overseas-nationals-june-2015.pdf

 

I don't think there is a definitive figure for the number of people who are currently claiming over £20,000 (or £23,000 in London) and do not have exemptions (such as disability) and so will be affected by the cap.

 

I've seen figures from 88,000 to 250,000 - either way they are both a small percentage of the total number of people claiming benefits.

 

If there is no figure then suggesting that only a small number claim the maximum is at best an opinion and not a fact.

[truman]

Facts and figures can be manipulated to prove or disprove anything.

 

 

Does that include the figures you use as well Anna?

[Robin-H]

Facts and figures can be manipulated to prove or disprove anything.

 

To be honest, I don't think anything, short of having first hand experience of it, would convince you, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

 

So you believe the facts and figures when they support something you believe (that cases of mental health issues are increasing) but claim that facts and figures can be manipulated to prove anything when I present some that challenge what you believe?

 

For the record, I believe that cases of mental health issue are increasing, but I believe it is largely for the reason I stated.

 

I'm not sure what your second statement means. Like I said, I agree that some cases of depression, anxiety and stress will be because of unemployment or uncertain work, therefore having first hand experience of that wouldn't change my opinion at all.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2016 at 15:53 ----------

 

If there is no figure then suggesting that only a small number claim the maximum is at best an opinion and not a fact.

 

Did you not read the rest of my post? There is no definitive figure, but there is a range from about 88,000 to 250,000.

 

Even at most it will only amount to 5%. That is not an opinion. Based on the range of figures, the proportion of total claimants will be small.

[Petminder]

So you believe the facts and figures when they support something you believe (that cases of mental health issues are increasing) but claim that facts and figures can be manipulated to prove anything when I present some that challenge what you believe?

 

For the record, I believe that cases of mental health issue are increasing, but I believe it is largely for the reason I stated.

 

I'm not sure what your second statement means. Like I said, I agree that some cases of depression, anxiety and stress will be because of unemployment or uncertain work, therefore having first hand experience of that wouldn't change my opinion at all.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2016 at 15:53 ----------

 

 

Did you not read the rest of my post? There is no definitive figure, but there is a range from about 88,000 to 250,000.

 

Even at most it will only amount to 5%. That is not an opinion. Based on the range of figures, the proportion of total claimants will be small.

 

If you don't know the actual figure how do know the range?

 

You said.

Are you refuting that only a small number of total benefit claimants will be affected by the cap

 

The numbers I have seen aren't small in my opinion.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Petminder

[Robin-H]

If you don't know the actual figure how do know the range?

 

What? That makes no sense.

[Petminder]

What? That makes no sense.

 

How can you know the range if no one knows the actual number?

[Robin-H]

How can you know the range if no one knows the actual number?

 

That's what a range means. It means that nobody is certain of the exact number, but that the number is almost certain to be within the range..

 

Nobody knows the exact number of people who died in WWII, it is estimated to between 50 million and 80 million. Are you claiming that because we don't know the exact number, it is impossible to know the range?