When will the political left change/learn?

[Cyclone]

Immigrants grow old too you know.

 

What's your point?

 

Do you understand the problem we have with the inverted age pyramid, longer lifespans and pensions?

[elgoog44]

when it is stripped back to basics of why the vote for leave and the vote for Trump happened the way it did, against opinion poles, is probably as simple as it could be.

 

A vote for the right at the moment seems to be a vote for racism / Bigotry, when in reality the issues stem further and longer but the left are so busy being offended they are not debating with the right to see all the topics and the full picture, so the people on the right instead of sticking there neck out simply say nothing, thus skewing opinion poles and when they are in the voting booth where there is no fear of a back lash or name calling tick the box for them that marks change, that marks a move away from the norm and address issues they feel are close to them, then some how we are all shocked by trump as president or that we are leaving the EU.

 

we all need to learn maybe to be less offended by everything and learn how to talk and debate so the real issues are dealt with, I am sure this will bring out the worse in some who will tell me what an idiot I m but I am open to debate.....

[sgtkate]

when it is stripped back to basics of why the vote for leave and the vote for Trump happened the way it did, against opinion poles, is probably as simple as it could be.

 

A vote for the right at the moment seems to be a vote for racism / Bigotry, when in reality the issues stem further and longer but the left are so busy being offended they are not debating with the right to see all the topics and the full picture, so the people on the right instead of sticking there neck out simply say nothing, thus skewing opinion poles and when they are in the voting booth where there is no fear of a back lash or name calling tick the box for them that marks change, that marks a move away from the norm and address issues they feel are close to them, then some how we are all shocked by trump as president or that we are leaving the EU.

 

we all need to learn maybe to be less offended by everything and learn how to talk and debate so the real issues are dealt with, I am sure this will bring out the worse in some who will tell me what an idiot I m but I am open to debate.....

 

Absolutely agree. Vast majority of people who voted for Brexit or Trump would not view themselves as racist at all and shouting that at people (I am guilty of this too...) just drives it underground to emerge at surprising results at the polling stations.

[Bob Arctor]

Economically or socially? Tell that to the former residents of tower hamlets,darnall,pitsmoor and endless other areas that have been "ghettoised"

Face up to facts lefties your dream of a globalised world has come to a halt, hopefully France will go the same way as Brexit and trump and vote marine le pen in. Maybe Germany could do something similar also, its the only chance we have of saving the western world as we once knew it.

 

nazi comments are welcome but will be untrue.

 

 

I live in Pitsmoor. It's not a ghetto, it's just a very ethnically diverse area. Even white people live here, shock. If anyone has moved out because they don't like brown people then that makes them racists. I'm still here, because like loads of other white people I'm happy to live alongside brown people. Because I'm not racist. Ghetto is now used as a pejorative term and only by racists.

[phil752]

Then that's fine. I really don't know how many times I have to spell it out, it's not about who your voted for, it's simply about knowing what and why you are voting.

 

Area51 if you did your research and are happy with what you voted for then that's clearly absolutely fine and dandy, both of us are lucky to live in a world where we can argue online, disagree and still go for a pint together afterwards without either of us being executed for treason. I might even buy

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2016 at 10:08 ----------

 

 

Why is that the fault of someone who has had their entire life taken from them through simply living in the wrong country?

 

I'm not saying we should simply chuck open the doors without any controls, but to say that someone who just happened to be born here, with all the opportunities that in itself offers, somehow DESERVES a house or a secure life more than someone who had none of the opportunities we had and has now had everything they worked so hard for bombed out from underneath them, had rape threats, children trying to be forced into child soldiers etc, then I disagree.

 

No its our government fault, I would think that if you work contribute to your own nation, i do think you should have a priority yes.

[syne]

snip

when in reality the issues stem further and longer but the left are so busy being offended they are not debating with the right to see all the topics and the full picture,

Snip

 

It's not that the left don't see what the right see, its more that the proposed solution to what the right sees as a problem isn't going to do what they think it is.

 

So please enlighten us what exactly is the problem that trump/fararge is the answer to..

Because it comes across as a regression, an isolationist ideal that appears to be trying to bury it's head in the sand to the fact there's a whole world of people who are jus.. Ah, what's the point..

[elgoog44]

It's not that the left don't see what the right see, its more that the proposed solution to what the right sees as a problem isn't going to do what they think it is.

 

So please enlighten us what exactly is the problem that trump/fararge is the answer to..

Because it comes across as a regression, an isolationist ideal that appears to be trying to bury it's head in the sand to the fact there's a whole world of people who are jus.. Ah, what's the point..

 

So please enlighten us what exactly is the problem that trump/fararge is the answer to..

 

Not a question I have the answer to but what ever people think it is maybe we should listen, I voted remain as I felt and feel it suits the engenders closest to me,

 

this is the perfect example for what I am talking about "Ah, what's the point.." rather than try and see from someone else point of view

[Zamo]

So if for example we could control immigration from Lancashire to Yorkshire, what benefits would we see?

 

What makes you think that France to UK is different to Lancashire to Yorkshire? It's just a question of perspective isn't it?

 

No it isn't. The people of Lancashire and Yorkshire share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both counties that join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and peaceful. It is very different to the far more fragile bonds that exist between different nations.

 

A one-size-fits-all open border policy, as we have in the EU, is illogical and ultimately divisive. It inevitable means one way, and large scale, migration from the poorer nations to the richer ones. It means the richer nations end up dealing with problems such as pressure on school places, housing, public services and health services. It means there is more competition for jobs and that makes it harder for the natives to find work and wages are suppressed. It can result in significant and rapid cultural changes within communities that many natives do not want or like. And all of this leads to resentment, anger and division. It is an immigration policy for Utopia not this world.

 

---------- Post added 16-11-2016 at 13:31 ----------

 

I live in Pitsmoor. It's not a ghetto, it's just a very ethnically diverse area. Even white people live here, shock. If anyone has moved out because they don't like brown people then that makes them racists. I'm still here, because like loads of other white people I'm happy to live alongside brown people. Because I'm not racist. Ghetto is now used as a pejorative term and only by racists.

 

People of different cultures can live very differently and believe in very different things and, for the communal beast that we humans are, that can be a problem.

 

You should also note that as white people left Pitsmoor to live amongst more white people, they were replaced by brown person moving in to live amongst more brown people. Funny how you only see a one way street of racism isn't it?

 

The truth is it isn't racism but human nature for people to want the familiarity and comfort of culture and community - you grossly overstate how important skin tone is to people. Yet you sneer at (white) people for wanting it and call them racist to justify ignoring legitimate concerns about uncontrolled immigration. It is both pathetic and futile.

[Santo]

[/b]

 

would the term mini psychological Berlin walls make you feel any better ?because thats whatI see spreading across the cities and towns of Britain.

 

Why is it racist exactly? It is entirely normal human behavior that is seen throughout the entire animal kingdom and nature as a whole. Why are you so intent on forcing people together and 'integration'?

 

 

If whites want to live with other whites only, and blacks with blacks etc, then leave them alone and let them!

 

do you call other communities racist like,Indians, Jews, polish, Chinese, etc because they group together?

 

 

When the Chinese firm a ghetto, it's given a cute name "Chinatown".....it's ok for some groups to live in their own groups in their own areas yet it's not for others. Double standards

 

On the one hand you seem to be advocating areas of cities for only one particular race but on the other saying it creates psychological Berlin Walls.

 

I think you tried to be clever and failed so your post makes no sense at all. Unless you think psychological Berlin Walls are a good thing?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Santo

[Cyclone]

No it isn't. The people of Lancashire and Yorkshire share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both counties that join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and peaceful. It is very different to the far more fragile bonds that exist between different nations.

Sounds like an argument for greater european integration to me.

Lets pay european taxes, lets have european standard education, and we already manage multiple languages in the UK, so I see no issues with language.