When will the political left change/learn?

[Guest]

Sounds like an argument for greater european integration to me.

Lets pay european taxes, lets have european standard education, and we already manage multiple languages in the UK, so I see no issues with language.

 

The country has just voted for Brexit, so the idea is a bit of a non starter.

[unbeliever]

Sounds like an argument for greater european integration to me.

Lets pay european taxes, lets have european standard education, and we already manage multiple languages in the UK, so I see no issues with language.

 

 

There's clearly an optimal size for a state. You seem to think it's 7 billion. The consensus in the UK is about 2 orders of magnitude smaller.

[Robin-H]

I live in Pitsmoor. It's not a ghetto, it's just a very ethnically diverse area. Even white people live here, shock. If anyone has moved out because they don't like brown people then that makes them racists. I'm still here, because like loads of other white people I'm happy to live alongside brown people. Because I'm not racist. Ghetto is now used as a pejorative term and only by racists.

 

Hasn't the term ghetto always been pejorative? It originally meant the area of Italian cities where the Jews were allowed to live (the were not allowed to live elsewhere).

[Berberis]

No it isn't. The people of Lancashire and Yorkshire share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both counties that join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and peaceful. It is very different to the far more fragile bonds that exist between different nations.

 

Zamo,

 

In 1939 the people of Bavaria and Brandenburg share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both states join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and ..... you get my point right?

[psynuk]

Not a question I have the answer to but what ever people think it is maybe we should listen.

 

this is the perfect example for what I am talking about "Ah, what's the point.." rather than try and see from someone else point of view

 

mmmmk.

 

Oh I can try and see it from someone else's point of view that isn't really an issue.

But this point of view needs to be available to see. It's not.

 

It's an ill defined backlash against 'woe is me, I'm not a special snowflake and it's all X's fault'.

I'd say the vast majority of 'right' leaning voters of the recent elections (not the knowing or well off conservative types but the new wave sheep converts) are going to be everso disappointed when they realise the jobs aren't coming back and the immigrants are still coming -because they're essential workers - The Conservative capitalist inclination that the left had tempered somewhat won't bring standards for all up.

The safeguards that are mostly attributed to the 'left' are being eroded in favour of corporate type solutions to shrink the state and grow the private faction.

The pool of talent that forms the newly voted 'right' are the same pool that pours money down the throats of bankers and landowners, of titled and favoured persons. This is the set of people who caused masses of misery via feudalism, fraud, self interest, lies to incite war, bribery and politicking, kowtowing to big business interests when they should have been serving the taxpayers of the world first and foremost.

 

From what I can gather the jist of things is

'Our country back','We don't want immigrants unless there of the 'good' variety', 'we want jobs for our 'own' kind', 'we want to be in control of our own borders', 'we want to lower the deficit and blah blah blah.'

 

It's almost a sham, voting from the same set of pigs but with a different type of silver tongued promises that apparently captured the imaginations of just enough..

 

The irony in all this is that the only thing that keeps the 'right' wing loons in check is the necessity of stability required of productive nations to function as part of capitalism.

Also the 'problem' which stems from the ever increasing requirement for profit and not some **** poor immigrant trying to take your potato picking job that you didn't even want anyway.

 

Or is it something else?

[phil752]

mmmmk.

 

Oh I can try and see it from someone else's point of view that isn't really an issue.

But this point of view needs to be available to see. It's not.

 

It's an ill defined backlash against 'woe is me, I'm not a special snowflake and it's all X's fault'.

I'd say the vast majority of 'right' leaning voters of the recent elections (not the knowing or well off conservative types but the new wave sheep converts) are going to be everso disappointed when they realise the jobs aren't coming back and the immigrants are still coming -because they're essential workers - The Conservative capitalist inclination that the left had tempered somewhat won't bring standards for all up.

The safeguards that are mostly attributed to the 'left' are being eroded in favour of corporate type solutions to shrink the state and grow the private faction.

The pool of talent that forms the newly voted 'right' are the same pool that pours money down the throats of bankers and landowners, of titled and favoured persons. This is the set of people who caused masses of misery via feudalism, fraud, self interest, lies to incite war, bribery and politicking, kowtowing to big business interests when they should have been serving the taxpayers of the world first and foremost.

 

From what I can gather the jist of things is

'Our country back','We don't want immigrants unless there of the 'good' variety', 'we want jobs for our 'own' kind', 'we want to be in control of our own borders', 'we want to lower the deficit and blah blah blah.'

 

It's almost a sham, voting from the same set of pigs but with a different type of silver tongued promises that apparently captured the imaginations of just enough..

 

The irony in all this is that the only thing that keeps the 'right' wing loons in check is the necessity of stability required of productive nations to function as part of capitalism.

Also the 'problem' which stems from the ever increasing requirement for profit and not some **** poor immigrant trying to take your potato picking job that you didn't even want anyway.

 

Or is it something else?

 

The problem is its not potato picking job, the rich have flooded their factories with contract migrant workers.

[tinfoilhat]

The problem is its not potato picking job, the rich have flooded their factories with contract migrant workers.

 

What about the average small business owner who aren't mega rich? Have they flown around the world making contacts with foreign employment agencies or do you think they employed whoever best turned up at an interview?

[phil752]

What about the average small business owner who aren't mega rich? Have they flown around the world making contacts with foreign employment agencies or do you think they employed whoever best turned up at an interview?

 

Don't under stand the flying bit, but i guess your right 200+ eastern Europeans just turned up at sports direct, Greencore Worksop or Wilkinson dist for example, on the off chance that a job advertised locally is still open.

[tinfoilhat]

Don't under stand the flying bit, but i guess your right 200+ eastern Europeans just turned up at sports direct, Greencore Worksop or Wilkinson dist for example, on the off chance that a job advertised locally is still open.

 

They use foreign agencies - all though greencore at kiveton only went that route relatively recently. But prior to that (and before they were greencore) you'd have thought there was zero unemployment round that way. Not the case. A lot of foreigners work there now and you have to ask why.

 

Sports direct is not a small business though is it. Neither is greencore.

[phil752]

They use foreign agencies - all though greencore at kiveton only went that route relatively recently. But prior to that (and before they were greencore) you'd have thought there was zero unemployment round that way. Not the case. A lot of foreigners work there now and you have to ask why.

 

Sports direct is not a small business though is it. Neither is greencore.

 

Neither have to fly round the world to get foreign agency worker either, nor do SME's, greencore has been at it for years, most RDc's have. If you are talking of business, with 2 or 3 employees then may be so.

 

But they are in the minority and really was not the point I was making.

 

do you actually think all the foreign agency worker actually go into a British agency to sign up one be one,

 

Also remember a lot of these places got grant to build factories in mining areas to offset the pit losses that really worked

Edited November 16, 2016 by phil752