Petminder Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) It doesn't matter where the traffic merges though. Its either at the first sign indicating lane closure or at the last minute. Wherever it happens traffic will slow and that slowing won't be any different - why would it? are you speaking from some kind of position of knowledge? i.e. have you witnessed computer simulations of this or something? If not I'd say neither of us are able to say which is quicker as there are many factors. By merging early you eliminate the risk of being forced to stop, but increase the risk of someone else overtaking and pushing in. If no one pushed in, the single queue would move much faster than two queues trying to merge at the last moment. Computer simulations of a zip merge do show how it can work but it isn't left till the last moment and it doesn't allow for the differences between different drivers. I posted a link showing how a phantom traffic jam forms, they couldn't even get 22 drivers to drive round a track at uniform intervals, they ended up stop starting. If they can't achieve that, how would you manage to get thousands of drivers to drive in sync and then merge into each other at a given point. In theory it works but in practice it doesn't because there will always be someone willing to push in and others that are willing to stop someone merging, there will be some that can't maintain the same speed and distance, some that brake a little to hard and some that apply a bit to much gas. Edited November 21, 2016 by Petminder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 By merging early you eliminate the risk of being forced to stop, but increase the risk of someone else overtaking and pushing in. If no one pushed in, the single queue would move much faster than two queues trying to merge at the last moment. Computer simulations of a zip merge do show how it can work but it isn't left till the last moment and it doesn't allow for the differences between different drivers. I posted a link showing how a phantom traffic jam forms, they couldn't even get 22 drivers to drive round a track at uniform intervals, they ended up stop starting. If they can't achieve that, how would you manage to get thousands of drivers to drive in sync and then merge into each other at a given point. In theory it works but in practice it doesn't because there will always be someone willing to push in and others that are willing to stop someone merging, there will be some that can't maintain the same speed and distance, some that brake a little to hard and some that apply a bit to much gas. Excellent post, if you don`t mind me saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Excellent post, if you don`t mind me saying. It makes a nice change from being told that I'm talking rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Perhaps you two can form Sheffields first queuing related club in Sheffield. You can form a little queue of 2 in your meetings and talk about all the bad people who are passing you using the rest of the pavement or something. ---------- Post added 21-11-2016 at 21:52 ---------- Absolutely nothing should be done. Its called getting ahead in life. Nobody owes anybody anything. It's a bit like getting served first at the bar, snooze you lose! At the bar I'm quite happy to say "no, actually I think I was here first". Very occasionally it makes someone get uppity, but then they should try to have some manners shouldn't they. ---------- Post added 21-11-2016 at 21:53 ---------- In most cases people do leave the junction clear, its probably the same inconsiderate drivers that queue jump that don't. I agree, two lanes of slow moving traffic zip merging in turn is not queue jumping, queue jumping is when the majority have already merged and the inconsiderate minoity speed down the empty lanes and pushed in. So the solution is that everyone use both lanes and merge in turn. Not a ridiculous situation where we leave hundreds of metres of perfectly good tarmac empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Perhaps you two can form Sheffields first queuing related club in Sheffield. You can form a little queue of 2 in your meetings and talk about all the bad people who are passing you using the rest of the pavement or something. ---------- Post added 21-11-2016 at 21:52 ---------- At the bar I'm quite happy to say "no, actually I think I was here first". Very occasionally it makes someone get uppity, but then they should try to have some manners shouldn't they. ---------- Post added 21-11-2016 at 21:53 ---------- So the solution is that everyone use both lanes and merge in turn. Not a ridiculous situation where we leave hundreds of metres of perfectly good tarmac empty. How do you propose getting thousands of drivers to drive in perfect sync so that they zip merge in turn when during tests they couldn't even get 22 drivers to drive round a track whilst keeping a uniform gap between their cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Merge in turn really isn't difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 How do you propose getting thousands of drivers to drive in perfect sync so that they zip merge in turn when during tests they couldn't even get 22 drivers to drive round a track whilst keeping a uniform gap between their cars? Driving single file round a track is pretty much the same as queuing in one lane. So what you're saying is that queuing in a single lane causes stop/start waves regardless of merging traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickw Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 When neepsend fills up with traffic I detour past the monkey works and rejoin at the farfield Who wants to sit in traffic all day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Merge in turn really isn't difficult. I agree but then I also accept that not everyone is a good driver, and it only takes a few bad drivers to mess it up to the point no one is moving. So how would you get hundreds of drivers to flow in sync with each other and then merge in turn? There are two slow lanes of traffic and your lane stops, the lane that is open ahead continues to move, you don't move for several minutes whilst the lane that is open ahead continues to move, do you move over when you can or do you continue to wait in the hope that your lane will start moving, when you eventually reach the cones do you wait until a driver allows you to merge? This time you are in the lane that is open but it is the lane that is closed that is moving, you are stood still in the open lane whilst traffic passes you and merges into your lane ahead of you. Before long the closed lane is clear apart from a few cars that are overtaking and merging ahead of you, do you stay where you are or use the lane that is now clear? ---------- Post added 22-11-2016 at 07:09 ---------- Driving single file round a track is pretty much the same as queuing in one lane. So what you're saying is that queuing in a single lane causes stop/start waves regardless of merging traffic. Yes a single queue of traffic will very likely end up stop starting, but that is better than two lanes of traffic stop starting and trying to merge at a set point ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The "flow in sync" is irrelevant so long as they merge in turn at the fronts of the queue. Everything from that point on can't help but work itself out. And in fact there are lots of places where something like merge in turn operates based on politeness. At the bottom of Dykes Lane you see cars alternating out of the junction and along the main road, except for a few that refuse to make eye contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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