Flexo Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The agenda of STAG is to minimise the felling of healthy mature roadside street trees across Sheffield. You'd think that would be the shared wisdom of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 We'll surely that's the aim of the panel also. Unless the independent panel consists of people wanting to maximise it. How could a further voice be a bad thing? Because all the voices are being ignored- adding more voices is just adding more that will be ignored. As previously pointed out, the council will just claim that STAG have been part of a 'consultation process', which, to the members of the public who don't understand what's actually happened, will give credence to a crooked process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexo Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Because all the voices are being ignored- adding more voices is just adding more that will be ignored. As previously pointed out, the council will just claim that STAG have been part of a 'consultation process', which, to the members of the public who don't understand what's actually happened, will give credence to a crooked process. Thank heavens that is finally settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 We'll surely that's the aim of the panel also. Unless the independent panel consists of people wanting to maximise it. How could a further voice be a bad thing? No. As an Independent Panel it does not have an agenda. It does not, and has not, commented on the the overall merits or faults of the Amey contract or the councils street tree strategy. STAG however has been very vocal about this. The aim of the panel is to assess whether the engineering solutions within the contract could be successfully used to retain trees on streets where 50% or more of residents who responded to the questionnaire disagreed with the planned felling for that street. They do not make a value judgement of the trees, or give an opinion whether or not the felling is appropriate, only whether the engineering solutions could be used to retain to tree, or confirm whether a tree is diseased, dangerous or discriminatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's not a cop out- it's a very good answer that blows your 'argument' out of the water. Either you're trolling or your brains not working. Your 'voting' nonsense is yet another strawman distraction. No - and you should probably read your wiki link on the difference between a comparison and a straw man argument. I won't be accused of being a "troll" either for having a difference of opinion. You believe the ITP is being is being ignored, what better place to be than be on it to either ensure it's not ignored or at lest further highlight that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexo Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 You believe the ITP is being is being ignored, what better place to be than be on it to either ensure it's not ignored or at lest further highlight that it is. Its remit is to advise the council. The council has the final decision. Therefore being on the ITP cannot ensure it's not ignored or make any practicable difference. Thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccy Beach Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Glad I've woke up to a world that hasn't changed: - people still can't see/accept why sticking a 'save our tress' ribbon on a tree you don't want to save might be construed as misleading. - Protesters opt out of opportunities for dialogue regarding trees to 'stick it to the man' - Use of some obscure links to strengthen argument. - Anyone with a different opinion is in bed with Amey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 You've used some basic maths to determine that it's cheaper to remove a tree than to maintain it. How many hours of labour did you estimate Amey would spend maintaining a large tree? How many hours and material costs for a new tree? From observation it takes a small team less than half a day to remove a tree and plant a sapling. The cost of the sapling is negligible. Regular maintenance for 20 years on the tree might take only an hour each time for a team of 2 (more likely to take 1/2 day still though), so very quickly the labour costs are more for maintenance. Not to mention that in the current state the immediate maintenance will take as long as the removal. So the cost saving is approximately 20 years of maintenance for a mature tree versus the cost of a sapling. ---------- Post added 15-03-2017 at 08:32 ---------- What have i lied about? This the panel that decided the trees future You've been told that the ITP is routinely ignored, so you've either failed to comprehend that, or the statement is a lie. ---------- Post added 15-03-2017 at 08:33 ---------- I have a lot of sympathy for the arguments, i agree with probably most of them - but the refusal to accept any other opinion undermines the argument generally. You haven't advanced an opinion, you just keep repeating already answered questions and misrepresenting the facts in an apparent defence of the removal of healthy trees for corporate profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Regular maintenance for 20 years on the tree might take only an hour each time for a team of 2 (more likely to take 1/2 day still though), so very quickly the labour costs are more for maintenance... Except that in a well run city, the trees could be managed for fuel production... Sorry, what am I thinking: we're talking about Sheffield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 That's a cop out - it's the ideal platform to voice the argument in a panel that is supposed to be independent. As I've said before it's like saying your vote doesn't count cos your party won't win. They should be on the panel which regardless of the opinion is a recognised platform. Far more than this one. I don't think you get it. The panel IS independent. It IS recommending that trees not be removed and it IS being ignored. Adding another voice that also recommends keeping a tree alters nothing at all. ---------- Post added 15-03-2017 at 08:36 ---------- You believe the ITP is being is being ignored, what better place to be than be on it to either ensure it's not ignored or at lest further highlight that it is. How do you imagine that one more person on a panel that is being ignored can somehow stop it being ignored? You're simply not making any sense. ---------- Post added 15-03-2017 at 08:37 ---------- Except that in a well run city, the trees could be managed for fuel production... Sorry, what am I thinking: we're talking about Sheffield. Amey are indeed selling off the removed trees to be burnt as fuel aren't they. A few more £££ in the corporate profit machine. ---------- Post added 15-03-2017 at 08:40 ---------- Glad I've woke up to a world that hasn't changed: - people still can't see/accept why sticking a 'save our tress' ribbon on a tree you don't want to save might be construed as misleading. - Protesters opt out of opportunities for dialogue regarding trees to 'stick it to the man' - Use of some obscure links to strengthen argument. - Anyone with a different opinion is in bed with Amey. Well, good job on misrepresenting the entire argument here, let me correct it for you. The ribbons are not "save our trees ribbons" they are "this tree is earmarked for removal" ribbons. Nobody has opted out of dialogue, STAG already have dialogue with the council, joining a panel that is routinely ignored (which they haven't been invited to join AFAIK) would not increase dialogue. No links are required to understand these points. Perhaps you're referring to the evidence about rain interception by mature trees. Maybe you'd rather guess at the facts. Nobody has been accused of being in bed with Amey, although now you mention it, a new account, only posting on a limited range of topics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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