Nigel Farage and Trump

[phil752]

Can you point out one, single innuendo in any question I have asked?

 

I am not trying to trap you, I am trying to find out if you think the terms racist/racism have a place in the world.

 

I most certainly do. But I am concerned that the term is being toxified by the claims that using it has helped fuel Trump and Brexit. I do not want it to be argued into toxicity, because there are racists in the world and they deserve to be labelled as such.

 

I don't think it has a place in the world, so i think we quite agree there.

 

Of cause there are racists in the world but im not sure what you mean by it

[pretty_big]

Can you point out one, single innuendo in any question I have asked?

 

I am not trying to trap you, I am trying to find out if you think the terms racist/racism have a place in the world.

 

I most certainly do. But I am concerned that the term is being toxified by the claims that using it has helped fuel Trump and Brexit. I do not want it to be argued into toxicity, because there are racists in the world and they deserve to be labelled as such.

 

The problem we have is that it's banded about to people who just want the best for people born here that have paid taxes and worked but feel hard done to by the droves of foreign workers that have come here. It's not racist to feel that way and oppose mass immigration. If you live in a 3 bedroom house and pay your way then all of a sudden you have to share that house and pay the same way but get less space and the house becomes less liveable with no sign of fixing it you'd vote Brexit and try to find a solution by sticking two fingers up to your landlord too. Unless you were a lefty of course in which case you'd vote in favour of your landlord and end up with the spare bedroom being taken too and the house becoming an open door policy.

[mikem8634]

I'd probably call them a racist... what would you say to a white/black/Asian man that has paid taxes all his life and can't get a decent paid job because of foreign workers driving the wages down? Would you tell him to vote UKIP because they're the only party that represents him? Or would you tell him to vote labour or Tory because they've put him in that posisition and they'll sort it out?

 

I am glad you would challenge racism for the disgraceful ignorance it is if confronted by it.

 

Off the top of my head, I would tell him to think very carefully before voting for any of the options you have suggested.

 

I would tell him that immigrants are not to blame for his difficulties and that those on the lower rungs should never turn on each other. They simply lack the power to alter, in either direction, the circumstances of each other and are used as scapegoats to divert attention from those who do wield power and consistently siphon wealth away from the areas where it is most needed.

 

That his situation has been caused by successive governments failing to invest in the infrastructure to cope with the rising population.

 

That the seeds were sown for our current political and economic climate in the de-industrialisation that occurred in the 1980's and that he is part of a social metric that was cut adrift then and has been left adrift ever since.

 

I would tell him that, for all their flaws, the only organisations that have ever attempted to stand up for the rights of ordinary workers are Trade Unions and the EU.

 

I would tell him to ponder why every major electoral decision in this country in recent years has gone the way Rupert Murdoch/Paul Dacre wanted it to so stop believing The Sun and The Daily Mail.

 

I would tell him that when doctors, teachers, and firefighters go on strike he should support them for as long as it takes.

 

I would tell him that capitalism has proven itself incapable of operating ethically and in the interests of the people and that it simply cannot regulate itself.

 

 

I would tell him that he has been lied to and not to be conned into thinking that people like Trump and Farage have his interests at heart when they are cut from exactly the same cloth as those who created this mess.

 

I would tell him that currently, there is no genuine political representation for him in this country.

 

Then I would remind him that none of this has been caused by immigrants. They have been thrown into this as much as he has.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:02 ----------

 

I don't think it has a place in the world, so i think we quite agree there.

 

Of cause there are racists in the world but im not sure what you mean by it

 

Would you Call Richard Spencer a racist? Nick Griffin? Tom Metzger? David Duke?

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:05 ----------

 

The problem we have is that it's banded about to people who just want the best for people born here that have paid taxes and worked but feel hard done to by the droves of foreign workers that have come here. It's not racist to feel that way and oppose mass immigration. If you live in a 3 bedroom house and pay your way then all of a sudden you have to share that house and pay the same way but get less space and the house becomes less liveable with no sign of fixing it you'd vote Brexit and try to find a solution by sticking two fingers up to your landlord too. Unless you were a lefty of course in which case you'd vote in favour of your landlord and end up with the spare bedroom being taken too and the house becoming an open door policy.

 

I have no interest in labelling all people who oppose immigration racist. I have already said that.

 

I do think they have been conned into looking the wrong way and I hate that.

 

I am only interested in ensuring that, in making that distinction, we do not give actual racists a free pass. That way lies the normalisation of deviance and we must hold that line.

Edited November 25, 2016 by mikem8634

[phil752]

I am glad you would challenge racism for the disgraceful ignorance it is if confronted by it.

 

Off the top of my head, I would tell him to think very carefully before voting for any of the options you have suggested.

 

I would tell him that immigrants are not to blame for his difficulties and that those on the lower rungs should never turn on each other. They simply lack the power to alter, in either direction, the circumstances of each other and are used as scapegoats to divert attention from those who do wield power and consistently siphon wealth away from the areas where it is most needed.

 

That his situation has been caused by successive governments failing to invest in the infrastructure to cope with the rising population.

 

That the seeds were sown for our current political and economic climate in the de-industrialisation that occurred in the 1980's and that he is part of a social metric that was cut adrift then and has been left adrift ever since.

 

I would tell him that, for all their flaws, the only organisations that have ever attempted to stand up for the rights of ordinary workers are Trade Unions and the EU.

 

I would tell him to ponder why every major electoral decision in this country in recent years has gone the way Rupert Murdoch/Paul Dacre wanted it to so stop believing The Sun and The Daily Mail.

 

I would tell him that when doctors, teachers, and firefighters go on strike he should support them for as long as it takes.

 

I would tell him that capitalism has proven itself incapable of operating ethically and in the interests of the people and that it simply cannot regulate itself.

 

 

I would tell him that he has been lied to and not to be conned into thinking that people like Trump and Farage have his interests at heart when they are cut from exactly the same cloth as those who created this mess.

 

I would tell him that currently, there is no genuine political representation for him in this country.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:02 ----------

 

 

Would you Call Richard Spencer a racist? Nick Griffin? Tom Metzger? David Duke?

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:05 ----------

 

 

I have no interest in labelling all people who oppose immigration racist. I have already said that.

 

I do think they have been conned into looking the wrong way and I hate that.

 

I am only interested in ensuring that, in making that distinction, we do not give actual racists a free pass. That way lies the normalisation of deviance and we must hold that line.

 

Sorry but i know i ask for a statement but are honestly saying when confronted with an out and out bigot ( racist hate that word) you think you would make any impact.

 

still like to know what you mean by racist.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:13 ----------

 

Also your three sighting of worker all are above the national wage

Edited November 25, 2016 by phil752

[mikem8634]

Sorry but i know i ask for a statement but are honestly saying when confronted with an out and out bigot ( racist hate that word) you would make any impact.

 

still like to know what you mean by racist.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:13 ----------

 

Also your three sighting of worker all are above the national wage

 

Racist - a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another. OED

 

Why do you hate the word? It is a perfect descriptor of those individuals I mentioned. Racists exist, there is no need for another word.

 

If you do not challenge racism you legitimise racism.

 

I may have an impact, I may not. I may have an impact on those listening, I may not.

 

You are making an argument for never taking on anything difficult, ever.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:20 ----------

 

 

[/color]Also your three sighting of worker all are above the national wage

 

The wage wasn't the point. The way they have been demonized by the press for striking was the point. Solidarity was the point. That is the one power the general public has and the one thing that the genuine elites truly fear.

Edited November 25, 2016 by mikem8634

[phil752]

Racist - a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another. OED

 

Why do you hate the word? It is a perfect descriptor of those individuals I mentioned. Racists exist, there is no need for another word.

 

If you do not challenge racism you legitimise racism.

 

I may have an impact, I may not. I may have an impact on those listening, I may not.

 

You are making an argument for never taking on anything difficult, ever.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2016 at 00:20 ----------

 

 

The wage wasn't the point. The way they have been demonized by the press for striking was the point. Solidarity was the point. That is the one power the general public has and the one thing that the genuine elites truly fear.

 

where in the world is the most racism in your opinion?

 

i sighted the work class you indicated because they seem to be the ones every on likes to roll of the tongue.

 

there is far more work groups that are mistreated.

[mort]

Back on topic please

[mikem8634]

where in the world is the most racism in your opinion?

 

i sighted the work class you indicated because they seem to be the ones every on likes to roll of the tongue.

 

there is far more work groups that are mistreated.

 

I genuinely have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

Could you be a bit clearer?

[phil752]

I genuinely have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

Could you be a bit clearer?

 

you may have to start a new topic if you want to continue, i wound welcome the discussion

[mikem8634]

you may have to start a new topic if you want to continue, i wound welcome the discussion

 

Fair enough