The Normalisation of Deviance

[*_ash_*]

mike, wouldn't it be easier to just alter your signature from:

 

'I respect your right to have an opinion but your opinion has to earn the right to my respect'

 

to

 

'I respect your right to have an opinion but your opinion means nothing, and you have to agree with everything I say to earn the right to my respect'

 

... and then just copy and paste this for each post, instead of spending your time responding to posts?

 

I'm sure it would save everyone's time.

 

[mikem8634]

mike, wouldn't it be easier to just alter your signature from:

 

 

 

to

 

 

 

... and then just copy and paste this for each post, instead of spending your time responding to posts?

 

I'm sure it would save everyone's time.

 

 

No Ash, I don't think so. All you have to do is provide evidence for what you claim, it really is that easy. It is only difficult if you are just making stuff up and can't find anything to back your claims up. Ask yourself why you are consistently in that position and why, by your own admission, I am not the only one to point it out.

 

You can ask me any question you like, I won't avoid it. You can ask me for evidence any time you like. If I have it, you'll get it. If I don't I'll tell you it's just an opinion. That's the way critical thinking works. Can you say the same?

 

Are you prepared to answer the questions I have asked you yet? Here they are for the second time -

 

 

Do you care that what you believe is true?

 

How do you decide what is true and what is not?

Edited November 29, 2016 by mikem8634

[Halibut]

We have more than enough laws and state interference to ensure the vast majority of racism that does exist is suppressed.

 

Really? That'd be why there was a 41% rise in hate crime post Brexit would it?

 

Enough now. Worry about racism in silence

 

You mean like pretend it doesn't exist?

 

because every time the left opens it's whiny mouth people recoil and shift further to the right... making the normalisation of deviance more likely.

 

Utterly wrong - what makes normalisation more likely is people like you refusing to see racism as a problem and pleading for others to ignore it.

 

 

I'll leave you with a question. What sort of a person has to be pressed into acknowledging that racism exists, claims it's all under control when all the evidence suggests otherwise - and keeps saying 'it's no big deal, let's ignore it'?

 

 

Answers on a postcard to the usual address...

[Zamo]

Really? That'd be why there was a 41% rise in hate crime post Brexit would it? [/qouote]

 

You mean like pretend it doesn't exist?

 

 

Utterly wrong - what makes normalisation more likely is people like you refusing to see racism as a problem and pleading for others to ignore it.

 

 

I'll leave you with a question. What sort of a person has to be pressed into acknowledging that racism exists, claims it's all under control when all the evidence suggests otherwise - and keeps saying 'it's no big deal, let's ignore it'?

 

 

Answers on a postcard to the usual address...

 

A perfect example of how leftists are driving the political shift towards the right. You keep on talking about your ism obsessions, ignoring the concerns of the majority and sneer and smear at those that don't share your views. It is a bullying tactic that has had success in the past but, like an overused antibiotic, people are rapidly become immune. Brexit. Trump. Far-right and nationalist parties on the cusp of power across Europe and none of it possible with leftists refusing to acknowledge legitimate criticism and concern and refusing to compromise. Self-destruction madness.

 

And when it comes to leftists on SF driving support for the right, I can honestly say that you, Halibut, are top dog.

[mikem8634]

A perfect example of how leftists are driving the political shift towards the right. You keep on talking about your ism obsessions, ignoring the concerns of the majority and sneer and smear at those that don't share your views. It is a bullying tactic that has had success in the past but, like an overused antibiotic, people are rapidly become immune. Brexit. Trump. Far-right and nationalist parties on the cusp of power across Europe and none of it possible with leftists refusing to acknowledge legitimate criticism and concern and refusing to compromise. Self-destruction madness.

 

And when it comes to leftists on SF driving support for the right, I can honestly say that you, Halibut, are top dog.

 

If Halibut and I are contributing to far-right radicalisation when we highlight racism and should, therefore, stop, as you have previously suggested, are you contributing to Islamic radicalisation when you criticise Islam?

[Zamo]

If Halibut and I are contributing to far-right radicalisation when we highlight racism and should, therefore, stop, as you have previously suggested, are you contributing to Islamic radicalisation when you criticise Islam?

 

Highlighting racism wouldn't be a problem if the left didn't constantly cry racism when there is none. Like the boy that cried wolf, people no longer trust the left, like the left or want to listen to anything the left has to say. The fact is that people who propagate a view that we should have greater immigration control (to reduce the negatives and increase the benefits of immigration) are not propagating a view that leads people down a path to racism and extremist. Yes, there are racists that want the same sort of policies but they are not the product of such policies and the policies will not turn non-racists into racists like them. Therefore these false accusations by the left are unjust and completely counterproductive as they create a potential far-right problem (as people move further an further to the right in search of politicians that will address their legitimate concerns instead of insulting them) where none existed before.

 

The same isn't true when it comes to criticism of the 'policies' of Islam. Islam is the root cause of a real problem. The propagation of Islamic beliefs does lead people to extremism. That's the difference... my criticism of Islam seeks to address a real problem whilst the left fabricates a problem and in doing so causes one. Of course, you are right that my criticism of Islam will lead to some Muslims getting angry and probably more radical but is the root cause of this legitimate criticism or a belief system that doesn't tolerate legitimate criticism?

 

I fear that this is about as far as we can go discussing these issues. You will no doubt challenge me to further justify why I think my criticism of Islam is legitimate and it will appear I have no answer. That is because I am not permitted to answer. Whenever I post the specific reasons for criticising Islam the leftists who have no retort instead report, posts are delete and I am suspended. The truth hurts sometimes but you're not allowed to tell hurtful truths about Islam on SF. And guess what this sort of leftist censorship does? Yep, drives people further to the right. Deviance of normalisation isn't the problem... it's the confused, inconsistent, intolerant and self-destructing left.

[mikem8634]

Highlighting racism wouldn't be a problem if the left didn't constantly cry racism when there is none. Like the boy that cried wolf, people no longer trust the left, like the left or want to listen to anything the left has to say. The fact is that people who propagate a view that we should have greater immigration control (to reduce the negatives and increase the benefits of immigration) are not propagating a view that leads people down a path to racism and extremist. Yes, there are racists that want the same sort of policies but they are not the product of such policies and the policies will not turn non-racists into racists like them. Therefore these false accusations by the left are unjust and completely counterproductive as they create a potential far-right problem (as people move further an further to the right in search of politicians that will address their legitimate concerns instead of insulting them) where none existed before.

 

Zamo, please let this sink in, I have been saying that since the first post. You have wasted all of this time trying to make a point I conceded in the first line.

 

That's why I said all of the posturing was pointless, all you had to do is read what I actually said, rather than throw a thousand smileys at an attack you incorrectly assumed I was making when it was plain and simple to see I wasn't if you had just taken the care to look. This thread is about tackling real, evident, obvious racism and has been from the beginning.

 

The same isn't true when it comes to criticism of the 'policies' of Islam. Islam is the root cause of a real problem. The propagation of Islamic beliefs does lead people to extremism. That's the difference... my criticism of Islam seeks to address a real problem whilst the left fabricates a problem and in doing so causes one. Of course, you are right that my criticism of Islam will lead to some Muslims getting angry and probably more radical but is the root cause of this legitimate criticism or a belief system that doesn't tolerate legitimate criticism?

 

I fear that this is about as far as we can go discussing these issues. You will no doubt challenge me to further justify why I think my criticism of Islam is legitimate and it will appear I have no answer. That is because I am not permitted to answer. Whenever I post the specific reasons for criticising Islam the leftists who have no retort instead report, posts are delete and I am suspended. The truth hurts sometimes but you're not allowed to tell hurtful truths about Islam on SF. And guess what this sort of leftist censorship does? Yep, drives people further to the right. Deviance of normalisation isn't the problem... it's the confused, inconsistent, intolerant and self-destructing left.

 

I'll just let that sit there, a detailed challenge will serve no purpose in this instance. The flaws are evident. I expected you to try and rationalise a way out of admitting that you are applying different standards to people you don't like, standards that are higher than you expect of yourself, and that is what you have done.

 

If you hadn't spent so much time posturing, avoiding and deflecting, and had actually answered the questions I put to you, then we'd have reached this point in about three posts. But I suspect you already know that.

Edited November 29, 2016 by mikem8634

[Halibut]

Highlighting racism wouldn't be a problem if the left didn't constantly cry racism when there is none. Like the boy that cried wolf, people no longer trust the left, like the left or want to listen to anything the left has to say. The fact is that people who propagate a view that we should have greater immigration control (to reduce the negatives and increase the benefits of immigration) are not propagating a view that leads people down a path to racism and extremist. Yes, there are racists that want the same sort of policies but they are not the product of such policies and the policies will not turn non-racists into racists like them. Therefore these false accusations by the left are unjust and completely counterproductive as they create a potential far-right problem (as people move further an further to the right in search of politicians that will address their legitimate concerns instead of insulting them) where none existed before.

 

The same isn't true when it comes to criticism of the 'policies' of Islam. Islam is the root cause of a real problem. The propagation of Islamic beliefs does lead people to extremism. That's the difference... my criticism of Islam seeks to address a real problem whilst the left fabricates a problem and in doing so causes one. Of course, you are right that my criticism of Islam will lead to some Muslims getting angry and probably more radical but is the root cause of this legitimate criticism or a belief system that doesn't tolerate legitimate criticism?

 

I fear that this is about as far as we can go discussing these issues. You will no doubt challenge me to further justify why I think my criticism of Islam is legitimate and it will appear I have no answer. That is because I am not permitted to answer. Whenever I post the specific reasons for criticising Islam the leftists who have no retort instead report, posts are delete and I am suspended. The truth hurts sometimes but you're not allowed to tell hurtful truths about Islam on SF. And guess what this sort of leftist censorship does? Yep, drives people further to the right. Deviance of normalisation isn't the problem... it's the confused, inconsistent, intolerant and self-destructing left.

'

 

 

Re first emboldened part of your reply -

I call you out on total BS; my contribution to this thread pointed out that hate crime rose 41% post Brexit. Yet in your twisted view, this becomes 'crying racism when there is none'. Are you claiming that that 41% rise in hate crime is fictitious, or that we should pretend it isn't happening?

 

Re second emboldened part - your claim that propagation of Islamic beliefs leads to extremism. Not true. If it were, we be overrun by extremists.

What leads to extremism is people feeling disenfranchised, having no stake in society and no hope for the future.

 

Re your last paragraph - again, alas, BS. An extended whine on your part, that's remarkably reminiscent of the kind of self piteous whining we've come to loathe from no-marks like Jayda Fransen and Paul 'poor me' Golding. I've been banned and had posts lifted as much as the next man - I know the score.

It happens when you breach the rules, no more, no less.

It's perfectly possible to be critical of Islam in a way that doesn't breach the rules - and for you to claim otherwise is frankly rather pathetic.

 

Finally, what you appear to be claiming about SF - that it's run by a cabbal of people with a pro left bias who won't tolerate opposing views is quite frankly utterly absurd.

[mikem8634]

'

 

 

Re first emboldened part of your reply -

I call you out on total BS; my contribution to this thread pointed out that hate crime rose 41% post Brexit. Yet in your twisted view, this becomes 'crying racism when there is none'. Are you claiming that that 41% rise in hate crime is fictitious, or that we should pretend it isn't happening?

 

Re second emboldened part - your claim that propagation of Islamic beliefs leads to extremism. Not true. If it were, we be overrun by extremists.

What leads to extremism is people feeling disenfranchised, having no stake in society and no hope for the future.

 

Re your last paragraph - again, alas, BS. An extended whine on your part, that's remarkably reminiscent of the kind of self piteous whining we've come to loathe from no-marks like Jayda Fransen and Paul 'poor me' Golding. I've been banned and had posts lifted as much as the next man - I know the score.

It happens when you breach the rules, no more, no less.

It's perfectly possible to be critical of Islam in a way that doesn't breach the rules - and for you to claim otherwise is frankly rather pathetic.

 

Finally, what you appear to be claiming about SF - that it's run by a cabbal of people with a pro left bias who won't tolerate opposing views is quite frankly utterly absurd.

 

I read his first line as referring to incorrectly applying a claim of racism to circumstances that don't warrant it, not a suggestion that there is no racism. If I am right then I agree with it, if you are right then I absolutely don't - of course there is racism. Hope that's clear.

 

Regarding the rest - well said. The whole post boils down to my problems are real and your problems are fake with no attachment to what real world evidence suggests. I don't think Zamo has acknowledged the links between the White House and white supremacy once, even to explain why it shouldn't worry me.

Edited November 29, 2016 by mikem8634

[melthebell]

Highlighting racism wouldn't be a problem if the left didn't constantly cry racism when there is none. Like the boy that cried wolf,

funny that cos on here there seems to be plenty of cries from the right about "racism" too Oo