People are offended at everything?

[DnAuK]

My final post on this topic.

I have tried to give reasons why comments related to the thread title are made.

How such comments could be reduced.

I have tried to answer questions put to me.

Those who want to be offended will always be able to achieve their aim.

I have not judged anyone or their lifestyle

I have found it is impossible to have a sensible debate when some are trying to divert it, find offence, or use veiled or open insults regarding homophobia.

My intention was to debate how incidents causing offence could be reduced but sadly........

 

I'm pretty late to this party but, as a gay man, I have to say I understand exactly what Harvey is saying. I lived in an era when such things as Pride were necessary to bring out understanding of homosexual people, but now it's outlived its usefulness and is used as an excuse to flaunt sexuality in front on people. I actually think it is currently damaging to the gay cause. A bit like CAMRA is with beer these days.

 

I have actually had people surprised that I am gay and say 'you aren't typical are you?'. As many on this thread have pointed out - what is typical? But what they don't seem to realise is not everyone thinks that way. Get the average group of lager swigging football fans together and they will ridicule any camp gay man they see, then assume we are all like that. We aren't. But a few like to jump on the bandwagon and flaunt the stereotype. And those are the ones that get the coverage. I'm afraid I don't like it any more than Harvey does.

 

Does that make me a homophobic homosexual? Wow!

Edited December 30, 2016 by DnAuK

[Diezel]

I have actually had people surprised that I am gay and say 'you aren't typical are you?'

 

Yes, as I wrote before, you would be termed straight acting even by the gay community.

 

But you are naturally very camp aren't you? Behind closed doors. The not being camp thing is all an act isn't it??? ADMIT IT!

 

I find 'straight acting' more inherently offensive than 'I don't eat ice cream, I'm not gay.'

 

One is widely used and accepted by the gay community itself, one was the utterance of a simpleton.

 

Go figure....

[Robin-H]

This link contains the actual footage. Please can you point out exactly where ‘Hammond actually said that he didn't want to appear gay.’ Or retract that false statement.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38442533/richard-hammond-is-criticised-for-gay-ice-cream-joke-on-amazon-show-the-grand-tour

 

I must also go back a step and address your earlier post.

 

 

 

I’d said Hammond wasn’t using gay to mean lame. Mister M, Gamston and Robin were all involved in that discussion. I said he wasn’t using gay to mean lame so can we at least put that to bed. Robin replied.

 

 

 

So your reply butts into a conversation with another user and isn’t accurate. Perhaps you missed the posts? And Mister M’s and Gamston’s? Try reading them all next time.

 

I’m not ‘rushing’ to defend Hammond at all. There is no haste in my replies. I’m saying his comment wasn’t homophobic. It was based on a stereotype that doesn’t exist.

 

In Modern Family there is a gay couple both of whom are stereotypically gay (the campest of the two is actually straight in real life). I assume you have no problem with that?

 

David Walliams plays gay characters very camply. You think that’s ok because it’s satire? Because perhaps he is bi-sexual?

 

How about the Big Bang Theory? The character of Raj is often seen enjoying/doing stereotypically gay things. They imply that makes him probably gay, even though he isn’t. I’ve only watched up to series 4 in its entirety so perhaps Raj has come out now? But I’ve seen the odd bits from later series and he still appears to be straight and they continue to joke that he must be gay for liking stereotypically gay things. Do you think that's ok? How come Jim Parsons, who is gay, hasn’t said, ‘enough with this gay Raj stuff! Let’s actually have him as a gay character or knock on the head the “he might be gay" stuff because it isn’t funny?’

 

Back to Hammond. He makes a joke that eating ice cream is gay. He’s not gay, neither is Jeremy or James. But you think that’s not ok. How is it different to The Big Bang Theory and what they do with Raj? The audience laughed at his comment and Clarkson’s reaction, clearly demonstrating that the stereotype doesn’t exist. So what’s the problem? That he had the audacity to claim eating ice cream was gay? Would it have been ok if he’d said drinking Malibu was gay? That would be straight people using a gay stereotype wouldn’t it? So just like Modern Family then? Can Hammond only make jokes about stereotypes if the stereotype exists? How about no-one makes jokes about any stereotypes ever instead? Would you advocate that?

 

As I wrote before, I find the term straight acting offensive. It implies all gay men are camp but some ‘act’ straight. They suppress natural campness. Go on a gay dating website Cyclone, it will often ask you to describe yourself and one of the options will be ‘straight acting.’ Here is a website using the phrase.

 

http://www.straightacting.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16797

 

Gay sex has been legal in the UK since 1967. In 50 years no-one has thought of a less offensive term for non-camp gay men other than ‘straight acting?' Perhaps the gay community should get its own house in order before going around accusing people of stereotyping gay men when they themselves cannot even describe members of their own community in a way that doesn’t suggest their natural manner is all an act?

 

The comments about ISIS were clearly flippant. You have made nearly 70k posts. Perhaps if you bothered to spend more time reading what other people have written instead of being such a quick draw in your replies you would have understood what I was saying better.

 

No need to apologise. But let that be a lesson to you.

 

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

I said Hammond was equating being gay with being lame - not that he was using the term gay to mean lame independent of the terms use for homosexuality. It was obvious that he was using the terms meaning of sexuality (since he said 'i'm straight), but the comments could also easily be construed to mean that he was equating being gay with being lame or undesirable.

 

Saying that you don't like something because it is gay is really not helpful in this day and age, whether that be ice cream, malibu or musical theatre.

 

If Hammond had said that he didn't like musical theatre because he wasn't gay would that have been any better? When straight kids in school are bullied because they like musical theatre, or closeted kids are bullied when they like musical theatre I really don't see why these sort of comments are meant to be funny.

 

 

p.s - I also think the term straight acting could be ridiculous and pretty offensive for all the reasons that you have stated. I'm not sure why that is relevant to this discussion tho. The existence of other offensive comments and phrases doesn't, whether they are used by gay people or not, doesn't make any difference to the topic of Hammond's comments on The Grand Tour..

 

Also, the term 'acting' doesn't always mean to 'pretend' it can just mean 'to behave or conduct yourself in a particular manner' - so the term straight acting doesn't necessarily mean pretending to act straight, although I agree that it could be perceived as that.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Robin-H

[DnAuK]

Yes, as I wrote before, you would be termed straight acting even by the gay community.

 

But you are naturally very camp aren't you? Behind closed doors. The not being camp thing is all an act isn't it??? ADMIT IT!

 

I find 'straight acting' more inherently offensive than 'I don't eat ice cream, I'm not gay.'

 

One is widely used and accepted by the gay community itself, one was the utterance of a simpleton.

 

Go figure....

 

LOL.. Thing is... you're right about that term too. 'Straight Acting' implies I only act straight in public and turn into a screaming queen behind closed doors. I don't. I like beer, sports and rock music rather than vodka mixers, X-Factor and cheesy pop.

 

Without wishing to be too crude, is it my tastes in drink and entertainment that make me gay or my **** up your ****?

[macmellus]

Yes, as I wrote before, you would be termed straight acting even by the gay community.

 

But you are naturally very camp aren't you? Behind closed doors. The not being camp thing is all an act isn't it??? ADMIT IT!

 

I find 'straight acting' more inherently offensive than 'I don't eat ice cream, I'm not gay.'

 

One is widely used and accepted by the gay community itself, one was the utterance of a simpleton.

 

Go figure....

 

Are you sure about your interpretation of 'straight acting'?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=act+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=LGlmWJL-C_TR8gfDqoeIAw

[Diezel]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

I said Hammond was equating being gay with being lame - not that he was using the term gay to mean lame independent of the terms use for homosexuality. It was obvious that he was using the terms meaning of sexuality (since he said 'i'm straight), but the comments could also easily be construed to mean that he was equating being gay with being lame or undesirable.

 

Saying that you don't like something because it is gay is really not helpful in this day and age, whether that be ice cream, malibu or musical theatre.

 

If Hammond had said that he didn't like musical theatre because he wasn't gay would that have been any better? When straight kids in school are bullied because they like musical theatre, or closeted kids are bullied when they like musical theatre I really don't see why these sort of comments are meant to be funny.

 

 

p.s - I also think the term straight acting could be ridiculous and pretty offensive for all the reasons that you have stated. I'm not sure why that is relevant to this discussion tho. The existence of other offensive comments and phrases doesn't, whether they are used by gay people or not, doesn't make any difference to the topic of Hammond's comments on The Grand Tour..

 

Also, the term 'acting' doesn't always mean to 'pretend' it can just mean 'to behave or conduct yourself in a particular manner' - so the term straight acting doesn't necessarily mean pretending to act straight, although I agree that it could be perceived as that.

 

No I'm not being deliberately obtuse. Are you? Watch the video in the link. He said he wouldn't eat a Magnum because he is straight. Not because it would make him look gay. He thinks only gay men enjoy ice cream. He thinks there is something about ice cream that gay men enjoy but straight men don't. If he'd said musical theatre or Malibu would it have caused any fuss? It would have been just like the Big Bang Theory then wouldn't it? Hahahaha Raj is gay!

 

I wouldn't have sex with a man. It's because I'm straight.

 

---------- Post added 30-12-2016 at 14:22 ----------

 

Are you sure about your interpretation of 'straight acting'?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=act+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=LGlmWJL-C_TR8gfDqoeIAw

 

Straight. Not homosexual.

 

Acting. Performing.

 

If you interpret it your way why does it have the word straight in it? What is gay acting? Being camp? Or having sex with men? On a gay dating website isn't that a given?

 

Robin if you can't see why it's relevant then you aren't worth bothering with.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Diezel

[Robin-H]

No I'm not being deliberately obtuse. Are you? Watch the video in the link. He said he wouldn't eat a Magnum because he is straight. Not because it would make him look gay. He thinks only gay men enjoy ice cream. He thinks there is something about ice cream that gay men enjoy but straight men don't.

 

I wouldn't have sex with a man. It's because I'm straight.

 

---------- Post added 30-12-2016 at 14:22 ----------

 

 

Straight. Not homosexual.

 

Acting. Performing.

 

If you interpret it your way why does it have the word straight in it? What is gay acting? Being camp? Or having sex with men? On a gay dating website isn't that a given?

 

Robin if you can't see why it's relevant then you aren't worth bothering with.

 

And like I said, I also think saying I don't like musical theatre because I'm straight or I don't like Malibu because I'm straight are also pretty ridiculous and stupid things to say - not things that should be said to get a cheap laugh.

 

The only thing the differentiates straight people from gay people is who they want to have relationships with. Saying that it has anything to do with ice cream, musical theatre or Malibu is in my opinion rather stupid.

 

Why is the term 'straight acting' relevant to the discussion about what Hammond said. Should we discuss all potentially offensive phrases?

[Gamston]

I'm pretty late to this party but, as a gay man, I have to say I understand exactly what Harvey is saying. I lived in an era when such things as Pride were necessary to bring out understanding of homosexual people, but now it's outlived its usefulness and is used as an excuse to flaunt sexuality in front on people. I actually think it is currently damaging to the gay cause. A bit like CAMRA is with beer these days.

 

I have actually had people surprised that I am gay and say 'you aren't typical are you?'. As many on this thread have pointed out - what is typical? But what they don't seem to realise is not everyone thinks that way. Get the average group of lager swigging football fans together and they will ridicule any camp gay man they see, then assume we are all like that. We aren't. But a few like to jump on the bandwagon and flaunt the stereotype. And those are the ones that get the coverage. I'm afraid I don't like it any more than Harvey does.

 

Does that make me a homophobic homosexual? Wow!

Excellent post.

 

I thought Harvey19 had been treated unfairly.

[DnAuK]

Excellent post.

 

I thought Harvey19 had been treated unfairly.

 

Ta chuck.

 

You know...just to keep up the stereotype...for balance!

[Robin-H]

Excellent post.

 

I thought Harvey19 had been treated unfairly.

 

I think it was the fact they they were saying things like people should not express their sexuality outside of their own home which may have raised a few eyebrows.

 

When asked if they referred to all people or just gay people I didn't get a response.