Failing NHS caused by the Tories?

[Robin-H]

It would make a good comedy program.

 

Someone will be along soon to blame it on Labour, that party that were in power 7 years ago.

 

 

Are you saying that the contract signed in 2004 didn't lead to an increase in A&E attendance, which is all that I was claiming? The figures would say that it did.

[El Cid]

Did the previous government or the current one fix the deficit while I was sleeping or something?

 

So that is ok then?

 

---------- Post added 12-01-2017 at 11:41 ----------

 

Are you saying that the contract signed in 2004 didn't lead to an increase in A&E attendance, which is all that I was claiming? The figures would say that it did.

 

I got divorced a number of years ago, I dont blame the ex, I have moved on.

 

Can the Tories keep us healthy, whether we are the 5th, 6th or 7th richest nation?

[Cyclone]

Can you back up this "defunded" claim? All the figures I've seen show a substantial increase in NHS spending (spun to sound like an even larger increase I know).

As for the GP's they do extremely well financially and I have no idea where you get the notion that they're hard done by.

 

A quick check shows (from the 1st source) a real increase (after inflation) of 0.9% per annum

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

 

This means that between 2009/10 and 2020/21, spending on the NHS in England will rise by nearly £35 billion in cash terms – an increase of 35 per cent. But much of this increase will be swallowed up by rising prices. In fact, around £24 billion will be absorbed by inflation, leaving a real increase of just £11 billion (a 10 per cent rise over eleven years; equivalent to an average annual increase of just 0.9 per cent).

 

Between 2010 and 2021 (planned).

 

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/nhs-numbers-0

 

This source shows a drop between 2010 and 2013 after inflation is taken into account.

 

But we really need to consider that the population is growing, so spend per capita is a more useful number.

 

Overall health spending has fallen by £12 per person but there are variations between the different countries of the UK

 

Since 2009 our % spend GDP on health has also been falling.

 

So funding hasn't fallen massively, but it hasn't kept pace with the increase in population, or the aging population, or the gradually more unhealthy population.

Diabetes is the single largest cost to the NHS, and a problem which has got massively worse and more prevalent, funding hasn't increased to compensate for this though, so the service gets more and more stretched.

[unbeliever]

So that is ok then?

 

---------- Post added 12-01-2017 at 11:41 ----------

 

 

I got divorced a number of years ago, I dont blame the ex, I have moved on.

 

Can the Tories keep us healthy, whether we are the 5th, 6th or 7th richest nation?

 

 

 

I know you love Labour, but you surely can't state with a straight face that 13 years of breaking the NHS and the economy at the same time can be easily fixed in 5+2.

[Cyclone]

As for the GP's they do extremely well financially and I have no idea where you get the notion that they're hard done by.

 

How many do you know?

 

I know quite a few medical professionals, not many want to become GPs anymore. In fact there's a recruitment crisis and a retiree timebomb... The figures are out there though, don't take my word for it, check them.

I don't believe I said "hard done to" though, I said that "nobody wants to be a GP anymore", feel free to prove me wrong and show that there are plenty of people becoming GPs.

[unbeliever]

A quick check shows (from the 1st source) a real increase (after inflation) of 0.9% per annum

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

 

 

 

Between 2010 and 2021 (planned).

 

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/nhs-numbers-0

 

This source shows a drop between 2010 and 2013 after inflation is taken into account.

 

But we really need to consider that the population is growing, so spend per capita is a more useful number.

 

 

 

Since 2009 our % spend GDP on health has also been falling.

 

So funding hasn't fallen massively, but it hasn't kept pace with the increase in population, or the aging population, or the gradually more unhealthy population.

Diabetes is the single largest cost to the NHS, and a problem which has got massively worse and more prevalent, funding hasn't increased to compensate for this though, so the service gets more and more stretched.

 

 

Yes. Those are all valid points. Somewhat in conflict with your earlier claim that there are "slightly increased numbers using it".

Do you think this can legitimately and honestly be described as "defunded"?

[Cyclone]

T Giving breast implants to women who have had mastectomies, while being something that may help the woman in questions appearance, is not "health" related and should not be available routinely on the NHS in my opinion.

 

It's not health related if you pretend that "mental health" isn't really health.

[Robin-H]

So that is ok then?

 

---------- Post added 12-01-2017 at 11:41 ----------

 

 

I got divorced a number of years ago, I dont blame the ex, I have moved on.

 

Can the Tories keep us healthy, whether we are the 5th, 6th or 7th richest nation?

 

Now that wasn't the question I asked was it. Your statement about your ex has nothing to do with it. Find the quote where I blamed the current NHS crisis on Labour...

 

I didn't - I said that the contract signed by Labour in 2004 led to an increase in A&E admissions. It did.

 

That does not mean that I am claiming the crisis this winter is a entirely a result of a contract signed 13 years ago - I was responding to a comment that said nobody wanted to be a GP anymore.

[Cyclone]

Why does no one want to be a GP anymore? They get paid extremely well, and thanks to the disastrous contract that Labour signed in 2004, they don't even have to do evening or weekend work, which lead to an increase in people using A&E.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6314301.stm

 

The proportion of unfilled GP positions has reached its highest ever level according to a new survey — a finding doctors say highlights the stark ‘reality for practices up and down the country’.

 

Just a year after the Government promised to recruit 5,000 more GPs, the survey, by the magazine Pulse, found that around 12 per cent of GP posts are vacant.

 

This represents a significant rise from the 9.1 per cent vacancy rate in 2015 and 2.1 per cent in 2011, the first year the magazine carried out the survey.

 

The latest survey finding comes after NHS figures revealed a 2 per cent drop in the number of full-time equivalent GPs last year, despite the Government’s commitment to increase numbers.

 

Ministers outlined a 10-point plan to tackle the problem last year but the shortage has since worsened.

 

I don't know why, I just know that it's the case.

 

---------- Post added 12-01-2017 at 11:50 ----------

 

The Torys come in and they again start to rise with no plan to fix the issue.

 

They also manage to cause the largest ever strike within the medical profession and alienate every trainee Dr in the country.

[unbeliever]

 

They also manage to cause the largest ever strike within the medical profession and alienate every trainee Dr in the country.

 

"Cause"? I didn't realise that doctors lacked free will.