Are you bothered about losing your right to live/work in Europe?

[unbeliever]

Yes, the thing we are about to lose and the topic of this thread: your right to live/work in Europe.

 

Not interested in the off-topic stuff.

 

I think you mean to live/work in any EU member state without explicit permission. You don't have the automatic right to live/work in European nations which are not part of the EU, and you will obviously retain the right to live/work in the UK which is part of the European continent.

[Flexo]

See post #42. I have clearly demonstrated an understanding of the meaning of European citizenship. You however have not.

 

I think you mean EU citizenship, not European citizenship there, you charmer.

[Robin-H]

Yes, the thing we are about to lose and the topic of this thread: your right to live/work in Europe.

 

Not interested in the off-topic stuff.

 

You (and the thread title) mean the right to live/work in EU member states surely?

[Berberis]

I have debated on here and elsewhere with many remainers who I respect, as well as plenty of the other kind. I shall therefore not assume that they are all alike and continue to respect them.

Some of us, on both sides, are capable of civilised debate rather than crudely labelling people through ignorance and prejudice.

Good day.

 

Telling people to "pull themselves together" and to "get over it" is dismissive and is certainly not civilised debate. Its the mentality of the dimwitted who were hoodwinked into believing the lies peddled by certain parts of the media.

 

You are stuck between either accepting you are maybe just a little bit racist and dislike Johnny foreigner or you were gullible in believing the lies peddled by the likes of Gove, Johnson and the tabloid press.

 

All other arguments have been debunked.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Berberis

[unbeliever]

I think you mean EU citizenship, not European citizenship there, you charmer.

 

Nope. Look back over my posts.

[Obelix]

I must disagree. You may be a citizen of Europe, in as much as there is such a thing, but the loss of rights is minimal compared to what is associated with national citizenship.

You are likely to lose the following:

1. The right to vote in European elections,

2. The automatic right to settle and take work in EU states.

3. The right, in extreme cases, to refuge in the consulates of other EU states when outside the EU.

 

You can overcome (2) by applying for permits for the nation(s) you wish to work in. (3) is not very useful as there are UK embassies and consulates all over.

 

All other rights which right-minded people value are conferred upon you by your national citizenship and will be retained.

 

I see that your main concern is about (2). That's fair enough, but it has to be balanced against the concerns of the many.

I seriously doubt that you'll have any trouble 'moving' freely. The paperwork will arise when you try to work or take up residence.

You know this idea of European citizenship only dates back to 1993. I'm sorry, but I have trouble seeing this as more than an inconvenience.

 

In your opinion those rights are minimal.

 

Personally I cannot see anything more fundamental to citizenship than enjoying the FREE right of abode, choosing my government, and choosing my place to work.

 

You may see it only as an inconvenience to ask for permits. However that sadly doesn't not reflect the reality. Take some friends of mine, only family, they live in the UK, one is Belgian, one is French. They have three children, one French/English dual national, the other two are English.

 

See how this is going to be a problem? To get them to a point where they can live as a family, it's going to cost them nearly 4000EUR to get the children nationalised in France or Belgium...

 

But this is just a trifling matter of permits...

 

You see now why the EU nationality was created and why it is very real and necessary?

[Flexo]

Nope. Look back over my posts.

 

The one that says:

 

"You know this idea of European citizenship only dates back to 1993."

 

Tell us more about that, and why all this is relevant to the topic.

[unbeliever]

Telling people to "pull themselves together" and to "get over it" is dismissive and is certainly not not civilised debate. Its the mentality of the dimwitted who were hoodwinked into believing the lies peddled by certain parts of the media.

 

You are stuck between either accepting you are maybe just a little bit racist and dislike Johnny foreigner or you were gullible in believing the lies peddled by the likes of Gove, Johnson and the tabloid press.

 

All other arguments have been debunked.

 

 

I would advise you against making direct insults on this forum. If the mods see it they will react strongly.

 

Look back over my posts on this matter. Or don't and just call me racist without any rational though or concern for your devaluation of that word.

 

I have supported immigration throughout this matter and made my case based on the value of national sovereignty and democratic accountability.

As you would know if you wanted to argue on facts and reason rather than just showing up and insulting people for daring to disagree with you.

[Obelix]

you can move to just about any country in the world. fill in some paperwork and live there.

 

No you can't. For almost everywhere else you have to have employment already arranged, sponsorship, a LOT of money, or relatives there.

 

You don't need any of that for the EU. At all. You just move.

 

---------- Post added 17-01-2017 at 15:49 ----------

 

 

Post Brexit. not a damn thing will change for 99% of us

 

For the 1% of people who have all the money nothing will change.

 

For the remaining 99% - well look at petrol and food prices. Guess why they are up so much.... and what is to come.

[unbeliever]

In your opinion those rights are minimal.

 

Personally I cannot see anything more fundamental to citizenship than enjoying the FREE right of abode, choosing my government, and choosing my place to work.

 

You may see it only as an inconvenience to ask for permits. However that sadly doesn't not reflect the reality. Take some friends of mine, only family, they live in the UK, one is Belgian, one is French. They have three children, one French/English dual national, the other two are English.

 

See how this is going to be a problem? To get them to a point where they can live as a family, it's going to cost them nearly 4000EUR to get the children nationalised in France or Belgium...

 

But this is just a trifling matter of permits...

 

You see now why the EU nationality was created and why it is very real and necessary?

 

The government will make reasonable accommodation for those who find themselves in such a position. Grandfather clauses will be required in all manner of immigration matters. I would not have voted for Brexit if I thought the government would do otherwise.

Much of the political power in the UK resides with the Westminster parliament. EU citizens have never had the right to vote in UK national elections. Your friends will retain the right to vote in European elections through their continuing EU citizenship.

Are they upset about possibly losing the right to vote in municipal elections?