monkey104 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm just trying to convey that 'innocent until proven guilty' and 'guilty until proven innocent', in practise, aren't as black and white as they sound. He was treated just as he would have been if he was guilty. Not really. It is one of the only times that you can be detained for something you may do, based on past history ie, previous fail to appear, history of offending whilst on bail, history of coercing witnesses or for his own safety. It could have been something that he has stated he will do whilst on bail, i.e. Made threats. Unfortunately you weren't there and can only say what your mate told you which may not be the truth or he had withheld something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamston Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Unravelling the double negatives you mean you want more cases where there is doubt about guilt to be sentenced? How do you propose recompensing those that are convicted and incarcerated who are in fact innocent then? I don't propose anything. As I stated earlier, I think the current system works fine and was only looking at the presumption of innocence in a court environment, from a different angle. Any changes would be too confusing for some to understand, so best to leave well alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I don't propose anything. As I stated earlier, I think the current system works fine and was only looking at the presumption of innocence in a court environment, from a different angle. Any changes would be too confusing for some to understand, so best to leave well alone. If you think that guilty unless innocent is acceptable you need to propose how you are going to deal with the consequences of that. So how are you going to address the inevitable situations when someone innocent is banged up for a few decades because they couldn't mount an adequate defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futures Red Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 The present Justice system works on the bases of innocent until proven guilty after an trail based on facts of the case. The charged are given the chance to plea guilty or not guilty. Now what if we had an system based on instead guilty until proven innocent? Are their any counties using this system ( dictatorships are likely to flavour this system ) what would the pros and cons be and how could appeals work in such an system? I'll tell you what. You were seen about 6 years ago speeding, doing 60 mph in a 30mph zone. So I'll find you guilty, add 3 points on your license and fine you £60... You can have it back and I'll take the points off, if you can prove your innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macmellus Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) [/b] Not really. It is one of the only times that you can be detained for something you may do, based on past history ie, previous fail to appear, history of offending whilst on bail, history of coercing witnesses or for his own safety. It could have been something that he has stated he will do whilst on bail, i.e. Made threats. Unfortunately you weren't there and can only say what your mate told you which may not be the truth or he had withheld something Your second sentence isn't clear. What does 'it' refer to. He was imprisoned whilst awaiting trial. Regardless of what he'd done in the past, he was not found guilty of this crime, yet was imprisoned. As soon as the hearing finished, he was released. If you're detained for something you may do based on your history then it is more like 'guilty until proven innocent' isn't it? https://www.gov.uk/charged-crime/remand Edited January 24, 2017 by macmellus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookedspire Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 I wouldn't have to prove anything. You're guilty remember. You have to prove you weren't at the location... You have to prove that you didn't do it. This is your idea... Witnesses would disprove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Witnesses would disprove it. I further assert without evidence that your witness are mad, or you paid or coerced them. Hah! Prove that's not true or their evidence will be discounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookedspire Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'll tell you what. You were seen about 6 years ago speeding, doing 60 mph in a 30mph zone. So I'll find you guilty, add 3 points on your license and fine you £60... You can have it back and I'll take the points off, if you can prove your innocence. You would appeal it then any fine would be refunded and points removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futures Red Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 You would appeal it then any fine would be refunded and points removed. You can't just appeal it, you need to prove that you were innocence. Only then will you be refunded and the points taken back. There's a difference between appeal and proving your innocence. In fact proving isn't enough, it has to be proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfox Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'll tell you what. You were seen about 6 years ago speeding, doing 60 mph in a 30mph zone. So I'll find you guilty, add 3 points on your license and fine you £60... You can have it back and I'll take the points off, if you can prove your innocence. I think you will find there would still be a need for an NIP - unless the OP suggests doing away with all the usual procedural requirements involved in a prosecution? Maybe its back to the French revolution and all you needed to do was accuse someone and it could lead to the loss of said accused's head via the guillotine ..... surely not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now