Old people condemned to more pain.

[banjodeano]

Labour said in their last general election manefesto they would not reverse any cuts and refused to spend more money (or indeed commit any specific number) to the NHS.

 

ah, but that was when we didnt have a true Labour party, they couldnt win an election, so they tried to be more like the tories, now we have a socialist at the helm, and when they get into power, i am sure they will be reversed

[lottiecass]

You are dreaming again banjo,its never going to happen with corbyn.

[Obelix]

Last night on question time someone said the the government bailed the banks out why won`t they bail the NHS out.

 

Even if it was not a total bail out of the NHS a few billion would help. Look at these figure that the banks received.

 

**Last December, the National Audit Office published a second report into the costs of the bail-out. That report concluded:

 

The scale of the support currently provided to UK banks has fallen from a peak of £955bn to £512bn, but the amount of cash currently borrowed by the government to support banks has risen by £7bn [to a total of £124bn] since December 2009.

 

**This is from 2011 2012

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/sep/12/reality-check-banking-bailout

 

Because the bank bailout was a one off cost and there was a very large liklehood of getting all the money back and then some.

 

Pour money into the NHS and you have to do it every year and you wont ever get it back.

 

---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 16:37 ----------

 

ah, but that was when we didnt have a true Labour party, they couldnt win an election, so they tried to be more like the tories, now we have a socialist at the helm, and when they get into power, i am sure they will be reversed

 

I love your sense of undiminished optimism.

 

After Callaghan fell in 79 Roy Hattersly remarked that this was the last rites of Old Labour and I don't think he was wrong. No matter what you think it's not coming back which means that May gets to fiddle unopposed while Rome burns.

 

---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 16:45 ----------

 

Not every one can afford private health insurance especially if on minimum wage, obviously the older you are the more it is, plus if you are unfortunate enough to have pre-existing conditions you may not be covered. I took this from the MSE site and was correct as of January 2017.

 

For a healthy, non-smoking 35-year-old

PROVIDER £ PER YEAR

April UK

£541

Aviva

£713

Bupa

£785

VitalityHealth

£802

Axa PPP

£850

Exeter Family Friendly

£957

 

You will find in a workplace scheme those numbers come down dramatically. I've never really understood why individuals pay so much more

[Dr Afzal]

Because the bank bailout was a one off cost and there was a very large liklehood of getting all the money back and then some.

 

Pour money into the NHS and you have to do it every year and you wont ever get it back.(

 

Ha ha ha, are you sure about that?

 

**

Most people think that the big bank bailout was the $700 billion that the treasury department used to save the banks during the financial crash in September of 2008. But this is a long way from the truth because the bailout is still ongoing. The Special Inspector General for TARP summary of the bailout says that the total commitment of government is $16.8 trillion dollars with the $4.6 trillion already paid out. Yes, it was trillions not billions and the banks are now larger and still too big to fail. But it isn’t just the government bailout money that tells the story of the bailout. This is a story about lies, cheating, and a multi-faceted corruption which was often criminal.

 

**

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/07/14/the-big-bank-bailout/#5114e5cf3723

[Obelix]

in what way is the US bailout relevant to the NHS and the UK bailout though?

[Anna B]

Then they suffer I'm afraid. Maybe they should have been more careful with money and not <removed> / smoked it away. They could have easily paid into a private medical insurance account if they had wanted to. And if they have never earned enough to do that then maybe they haven't contributed enough to be treat for free anyway.

 

Clearly those are sweeping statements, but broadly what a capitalist government is about. That's what you'd get in the US and that's what people voted for here. Government clearly cannot give everyone who has a nagging pain for free on the taxes they currently collect. So you have to prioritise who is going to get treatment. That is simply real life. The alternative would be to move to a completely Marxist society, which is what you seem to want. But sadly that doesn't work either.

 

The majority of people reaching the age where they might need joint replacements, grew up and spent most of their working lives under the understanding that by paying into a national health insurance scheme they would be covered for health care.

It is this Tory government that is moving the goal posts and reneging on that promise.

Had people not had to pay into a national health insurance scheme year after year, they may have had more money to provide for their own private health insurance.

I particularly object to your supposition that they somehow squandered their earnings. I can assure you that in my experience and that of the people I know, every penny was spent on raising their families and trying to give them the best start in life they could afford, through some very difficult times.

[willman]

The majority of people reaching the age where they might need joint replacements, grew up and spent most of their working lives under the understanding that by paying into a national health insurance scheme they would be covered for health care.

It is this Tory government that is moving the goal posts and reneging on that promise.

Had people not had to pay into a national health insurance scheme year after year, they may have had more money to provide for their own private health insurance.

I particularly object to your supposition that they somehow squandered their earnings. I can assure you that in my experience and that of the people I know, every penny was spent on raising their families and trying to give them the best start in life they could afford, through some very difficult times.

 

They are - every minute they breathe they are covered by the NHS - they can't save the investment up for when they want a knee.

Do a quick calculation based of the amount of money they have paid using tax -an example is here: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/297810/Just-where-does-all-your-tax-go

 

Earning 26k a year only £1109 goes to the NHS - thats 10 years of tax for one knee replacement if they conveniently "save up" how much they've paid in. So do they get the GP and everything else for free ?

That also pays for all their childrens care,child birth and in some cases their partners if they were full time mums.

 

---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 18:19 ----------

 

There isn't a problem with the NHS - there's a problem as to the perception of what the NHS is TODAY.

[Anna B]

They are - every minute they breathe they are covered by the NHS - they can't save the investment up for when they want a knee.

Do a quick calculation based of the amount of money they have paid using tax -an example is here: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/297810/Just-where-does-all-your-tax-go

 

Earning 26k a year only £1109 goes to the NHS - thats 10 years of tax for one knee replacement if they conveniently "save up" how much they've paid in. So do they get the GP and everything else for free ?

That also pays for all their childrens care,child birth and in some cases their partners if they were full time mums.

 

---------- Post added 27-01-2017 at 18:19 ----------

 

There isn't a problem with the NHS - there's a problem as to the perception of what the NHS is TODAY.

 

Maybe we should have health cover like the Americans have. Ok if you're averagely healthy and don't need it, but have any ongoing health problems, inherited illnesses etc and premiums jump so as to be unaffordable for many people and that's if you can get health cover at all.

Many people only get cover through their jobs and that finishes when they finish work, so as they get older and more in need the cover isn't there.

 

I have an American cousin married to an American doctor. You should hear what they have to say about the American health care system... It's not good, particularly for those at the lower end of the scale.

[iansheff]

 

You will find in a workplace scheme those numbers come down dramatically. I've never really understood why individuals pay so much more

 

Yes in a workplace they will probably come down because a firm might be getting quite a few employees to sign up and subsidise it. Years ago I was in BUPA through the JIB, it never cost a penny, it was all paid for. I looked at health insurance for living in Greece and the prices were expensive, coming in at about 600€ a month.

Edited January 27, 2017 by iansheff

[Anna B]

If health insurance is anything like many other types of insurance, then it will all be about taking your premiums when you are healthy and then them finding reasons, no matter how spurious, not to pay out when you need it. It is a business designed to make money, not to help people in need.

Being embroiled in a legal battle is just what you and your loved ones don't need when there is serious illness in the family.

 

The idea that private health care is the answer to everything, is misguided to say the least.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Anna B