Democracy and Nigel

[unbeliever]

Do you know anything at all about Winston Churchill?

I suggest you read one of the biographies about him, or even just look at google.

 

He was one of the greatest men this country has produced, and was in favour of a united Europe.

 

Farage is a blathering non entity, with no experience of anything but inherited money.

 

I don't think you're right about Churchill. He was broadly supportive of some kind of European unification, but not including the UK. His writings showed he was more inclined toward a union of "The English speaking nations" with regard to the UK.

I agree though with the sentiment that Farage is no Churchill.

[GLASGOWOODS]

Do you know anything at all about Winston Churchill?

I suggest you read one of the biographies about him, or even just look at google.

 

He was one of the greatest men this country has produced, and was in favour of a united Europe.

 

Farage is a blathering non entity, with no experience of anything but inherited money.

 

Actually yes I do. Read it all and watched the lot! Bit of a hero for me Mr Churchill.

 

I suggest you don't go off tangent and read this carefully...

 

Churchill popular WW2, got the job done, then after the war annihilated at the polling stations.

 

Farage popular Brexit, job done, I would expect annihilation for UKIP at the polling stations. Not a bad effort for (as you put) a non-entity.

 

If you want to start a topic on Churchills love of Europe, go ahead.

[Jacktari]

I don't think you're right about Churchill. He was broadly supportive of some kind of European unification, but not including the UK. His writings showed he was more inclined toward a union of "The English speaking nations" with regard to the UK.

I agree though with the sentiment that Farage is no Churchill.

 

He was a product of his time.

His politics and methods were completely at odds with my way of thinking.

He despised the working class, and believed the right to rule was definitely the domain of his type of people.

 

But for all that he was a great man, and he knew it.

He united the nation, in a time of its greatest need and successfully led the nation to victory.

He was a born soldier and, in my opinion, in the 1940's he saved the world from fascist domination.

Without him, Britain would have been defeated, Roosevelt in the USA would have been overruled by the appeasers and the USA made a separate fragile peace with Hitler.

 

What has Farage done?

Led a rag-tag group of racists and knuckle draggers, embarrassed us, and continues to embarrass us, in the eyes of the world with his half baked ideas about regaining a sovereignty that was never lost.

And above all disuniting the nation to a point never known before, and is dragging us to disaster.

 

---------- Post added 04-02-2017 at 11:19 ----------

 

Actually yes I do. Read it all and watched the lot! Bit of a hero for me Mr Churchill.

 

I suggest you don't go off tangent and read this carefully...

 

Churchill popular WW2, got the job done, then after the war annihilated at the polling stations.

 

Farage popular Brexit, job done, I would expect annihilation for UKIP at the polling stations. Not a bad effort for (as you put) a non-entity.

 

If you want to start a topic on Churchills love of Europe, go ahead.

If you hadn't noticed, this is my thread.

[unbeliever]

I don't understand how anybody can continue to argue that a nation governed by an external cabinet and parliament and subject to rulings by external courts retains sovereignty in any meaningful sense of the word.

[I1L2T3]

I don't understand how anybody can continue to argue that a nation governed by an external cabinet and parliament and subject to rulings by external courts retains sovereignty in any meaningful sense of the word.

 

The UK is fully sovereign and has always been. Not for one day since 1973 has this not been the case.

 

The misconception is that by pooling sovereignty we somehow lose it but that argument is utter nonsense. As the triggering of article 50 will show we can make a fully sovereign decision to un-pool that sovereignty at any time and there is not a jot anybody or any country or any organisation can do about it.

 

We are not ruled over or governed by the EU and we never have been.

 

Even the ECJ is heavily moulded and influenced by us, as one of the major countries in the EU.

 

Stick to the facts, not fantasy.

[unbeliever]

The UK is fully sovereign and has always been. Not for one day since 1973 has this not been the case.

 

The misconception is that by pooling sovereignty we somehow lose it but that argument is utter nonsense. As the triggering of article 50 will show we can make a fully sovereign decision to un-pool that sovereignty at any time and there is not a jot anybody or any country or any organisation can do about it.

 

We are not ruled over or governed by the EU and we never have been.

 

Even the ECJ is heavily moulded and influenced by us, as one of the major countries in the EU.

 

Stick to the facts, not fantasy.

 

You're suggesting, as you and others have before, that having pooled something you still have it. Can you perhaps think about that for a moment.

 

You also don't seem to think that a EU directive constitutes governance.

 

This ridiculous semantic argument has run it's course by now surely. Call it what you want, we are not currently in control of our own law.

[NigelFargate]

I don't think you're right about Churchill. He was broadly supportive of some kind of European unification, but not including the UK. His writings showed he was more inclined toward a union of "The English speaking nations" with regard to the UK.

I agree though with the sentiment that Farage is no Churchill.

 

Churchill was also a warmonger all of his life. Lloyd George said something to the effect that Churchill could never contemplate an international problem or crisis without wanting to use bombs or bullets to solve it. Farage on the other hand has opposed the so-called 'liberal interventions' in Iraq, Libya and elsewhere.

[Jacktari]

Churchill was also a warmonger all of his life. Lloyd George said something to the effect that Churchill could never contemplate an international problem or crisis without wanting to use bombs or bullets to solve it. Farage on the other hand has opposed the so-called 'liberal interventions' in Iraq, Libya and elsewhere.

 

Anyone who uses a parody name is usually out to take the mick.

You are going to the top of the class in this pee take.

Change your name if you can Nigel, it is becoming more farcical hourly.

[harvey19]

I was brought up to give people their titles when referring to them i.e. Mr. Churchill and Mr. Farage.

[Jacktari]

I was brought up to give people their titles when referring to them i.e. Mr. Churchill and Mr. Farage.

 

Titles are a sign of respect.

Some people don't deserve them

 

When I see court reports, for instance, and it refers to the accused as 'Mr', or whatever, it really irritates me.

 

The same as using the name Mrs, or Mr, for Prime Ministers is sickening.

They are not worthy of respect.