Democracy and Nigel

[Supertramp]

I was brought up to give people their titles when referring to them i.e. Mr. Churchill and Mr. Farage.

 

Seriously? You call everyone Mr or Mrs?

[The Joker]

I was brought up to give people their titles when referring to them i.e. Mr. Churchill and Mr. Farage.

 

Do you still tug your forelock ?

[max]

I was brought up to give people their titles when referring to them i.e. Mr. Churchill and Mr. Farage.

 

How about Warmonger and Liar as titles?

[harvey19]

People in positions of authority and who have worked hard to get there deserve some respect.

Whether one agrees with them or likes them is another matter.

President Trump is the way the president of the USA should be addressed not by the familiar and disrespectful way I hear used so often.

Prime Minister May is also our Prime minister's title but I must admit Terrific Theresa sounds rather nice.

Edited February 4, 2017 by harvey19

[I1L2T3]

You're suggesting, as you and others have before, that having pooled something you still have it. Can you perhaps think about that for a moment.

 

You also don't seem to think that a EU directive constitutes governance.

 

This ridiculous semantic argument has run it's course by now surely. Call it what you want, we are not currently in control of our own law.

 

When sovereignty is pooled a country doesn't give its sovereignty away. It becomes part of a collective decision making process and in our case as - one of the major EU countries - decisions generally go exactly the way we want them to.

 

Directives are never made without our input and influence.

 

The real flawed semantic argument is the one you are making. The reality is that almost all EU law is what we would implement anyway, because we have been instrumental in developing the directives in the first place.

 

Pooled sovereignty is not lost sovereignty. Only if the EU prevented us taking it back would there be a problem. Arguably pooling sovereignty doesn't hold us back. It makes us stronger.

[The Joker]

How about Warmonger and Liar as titles?

 

I think those would suit Tony Bliar perfectly.

[Jacktari]

People in positions of authority and who have worked hard to get there deserve some respect.

Whether one agrees with them or likes them is another matter.

President Trump is the way the president of the USA should be addressed not by the familiar and disrespectful way I hear used so often.

Prime Minister May is also our Prime minister's title but I must admit Terrific Theresa sounds rather nice.

 

Maggie may as The Donald calls her, and here is her song, from long ago:-

 

MAGGIE MAY

(Traditional 19th Century Liverpool Seamen's Song)

 

 

Now gather round you sailor boys, and listen to my plea

And when you've heard my tale you'll pity me

For I was a real damned fool in the port of Liverpool

The first time that I came home from the sea

 

I was paid off at the Home, from a voyage to Sierra Leone

Two pounds ten and sixpence was my pay

When I drew the tin I grinned, but I very soon got skinned

By a girl by the name of Maggie May

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

 

I shan't forget the day when I first met Maggie May

She was cruising up and down on Canning Place

With a figure so divine, like a frigate of the line

So, being a sailor, I gave chase

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

 

Next day I woke in bed, with a sore and aching head

No shoes, or shirt, or trousers could I find

I asked her where they were, and she answered, "My dear sir,

They're down in Kelly's knock-shop, number nine"

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

 

Oh, you thieving Maggie May, you robbed me of my pay

When I slept with you last night ashore

And the judge he guilty found her of robbing a homeward-bounder

And she'll never roam down Paradise Street no more

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

[unbeliever]

When sovereignty is pooled a country doesn't give its sovereignty away. It becomes part of a collective decision making process and in our case as - one of the major EU countries - decisions generally go exactly the way we want them to.

 

Directives are never made without our input and influence.

 

The real flawed semantic argument is the one you are making. The reality is that almost all EU law is what we would implement anyway, because we have been instrumental in developing the directives in the first place.

 

Pooled sovereignty is not lost sovereignty. Only if the EU prevented us taking it back would there be a problem. Arguably pooling sovereignty doesn't hold us back. It makes us stronger.

 

You've substantially changed the meaning of national sovereignty from the way it has always been used traditionally.

Furthermore I find your argument that we retain sovereignty whist being almost entirely prevented from using it to be extraordinarily tenuous.

 

Scotland was given then power to withdraw from the UK union. Does that make it sovereign? Or did it make it sovereign on the day of the vote, or after the vote was scheduled? Is it sovereign because the vote took place, if so then how long for?

[Jacktari]

You've substantially changed the meaning of national sovereignty from the way it has always been used traditionally.

Furthermore I find your argument that we retain sovereignty whist being almost entirely prevented from using it to be extraordinarily tenuous.

 

Scotland was given then power to withdraw from the UK union. Does that make it sovereign? Or did it make it sovereign on the day of the vote, or after the vote was scheduled? Is it sovereign because the vote took place, if so then how long for?

 

Who is this sovereignty for?

Not for you that is a fact.

It is a meaningless concept.

In the grand scheme you are as insignificant as a speck of dust.

[harvey19]

Maggie may as The Donald calls her, and here is her song, from long ago:-

 

MAGGIE MAY

(Traditional 19th Century Liverpool Seamen's Song)

 

 

Now gather round you sailor boys, and listen to my plea

And when you've heard my tale you'll pity me

For I was a real damned fool in the port of Liverpool

The first time that I came home from the sea

 

I was paid off at the Home, from a voyage to Sierra Leone

Two pounds ten and sixpence was my pay

When I drew the tin I grinned, but I very soon got skinned

By a girl by the name of Maggie May

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

 

I shan't forget the day when I first met Maggie May

She was cruising up and down on Canning Place

With a figure so divine, like a frigate of the line

So, being a sailor, I gave chase

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

 

Next day I woke in bed, with a sore and aching head

No shoes, or shirt, or trousers could I find

I asked her where they were, and she answered, "My dear sir,

They're down in Kelly's knock-shop, number nine"

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

 

Oh, you thieving Maggie May, you robbed me of my pay

When I slept with you last night ashore

And the judge he guilty found her of robbing a homeward-bounder

And she'll never roam down Paradise Street no more

 

Oh, Maggie, Maggie May, they've taken you away

They've sent you to Van Diemen's cruel shore

For you robbed so many a sailor, and skinned so many a whaler

And you'll never shine in Paradise Street no more

 

St. Theresa of the Roses is a much more appropriate song.

Edited February 4, 2017 by harvey19