Who are the real "progressives"?

[Anna B]

Do tell. How many cases? How many of those cases are high profile or involve national security both real and imagined?

 

In other news "progressives" have banded together to get piers Morgan to drop out of a presenting gig. The crime they're pinning on him is that he's defending trump. To be fair, the most I've seen him say is to give trump time, but on the other hand I try to avoid anything piers Morgan says because he's an odious, poisonous bully who makes me want to commit violent acts, mainly against piers Morgan. I like the fact he's being deprived a fee paying gig (although he did offer to do it for free when he realised the strength of feeling against him) but it's this sort of division (over some telly awards ffs) that does the country no good at all.

 

Let him present it, every winner could get up and throw insults at him. Or rocks. Pushing him out....I'm not sure.

 

Hundreds of cases - thousands for all I know. All family courts are now secret courts, and that power is regularly abused. Anything to do with 'Terroriism' (and that can mean just about anything from protesting to serious stuff) can be held in a secret court. The press is up in arms about the reporting restrictions the government are trying to impose on them, (the MPs Expenses scandal would not have got out now)

 

If you want a good example of how far we've come, just google 'Melanie Shaw.' Go on, I dare you...

[phil752]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently.

 

I hear so often from people who identify as liberals or progressive or social democrats that people who disagree with them are evil. That they should be silenced. People who identify as "right" or merely fail to comply with somebody's definition of "left" are labelled racists or fascists or nazis without any meaningful foundation.

 

I recall John Stewarts "Rally to restore sanity" in the US, which I thought was wonderful, and the hilarious placards people were carrying around.

In the US oppression of opinion goes both ways. Is it the same here and am I biased, or is my perception of oppression by the self-identified "progressives" more accurate?

 

In government Labour raised detention without trial to 28 days, and tried extremely hard to increase it to 90 days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Act_2006#Extending_the_period_of_detention_without_charge

The Conservatives have put it back to 14 days where it is very likely to stay.

 

Let's not forget that on one occasion Labour used similar laws to have the police eject an old man (a member of their own party) from their conference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Wolfgang#2005_Labour_conference_incident

 

When was the last time somebody in authority, who identifies as right/conservative told you that you couldn't say something, or worse argued that you should go to prison for saying it?

 

Take a step back. Who, on the political scene, actually defends our liberty now? Who seeks to enrich and empower the least amongst us?

I thought that I'd changed over the last 20 years and that's why I was voting differently. Did I, or did the "left" lose its way and me with it?

 

Every once in a while you have to question your own political assumptions:

The left are the ones looking out for the poor?

Redistribution is the way to help the poor?

The gap between rich and poor is what need to be fixed?

More tax-money spent on this problem will help?

The left defend our liberties and entitlements against the right?

 

Is any of this true any more?

If not, then when did this happen and why is nobody doing anything to put it right?

 

I feel there is none all are bound by constriction to founder on previous historic mistakes.

[Anna B]

I feel there is none all are bound by constriction to founder on previous historic mistakes.

 

Don't you think Jeremy Corbyn could be the answer? He has spoken loud and clear about the 5 things in Unbelievers list in his post, and much more besides.. Not that you'd know about it from the establishment run media, who vllify him and distort everything he says.

 

He's had to resort to going round the country to public meetings to get his views across to the ordinary people, and those that see him, love him. That's why he has such a strong grass roots following.. He has the answers to redress the balance, but the corporations who now rule the government and have spent years getting us to the position we are in now, don't want that, and are determined to stop him.

 

Democracy? don't make me laugh....

Edited February 20, 2017 by Anna B

[phil752]

Don't you think Jeremy Corbyn could be the answer? He has spoken loud and clear about the 5 things in Unbelievers list in his post, and much more besides.. Not that you'd know about it from the establishment run media, who vllify him and distort everything he says.

 

He's had to resort to going round the country to public meetings to get his views across to the ordinary people, and those that see him, love him. That's why he has such a strong grass roots following.. He has the answers to redress the balance, but the corporations who now rule the government and have spent years getting us to the position we are in now, don't want that, and are determined to stop him.

 

Democracy? don't make me laugh....

no no no I live on totally labour safe seat and not once has anyone asked my opinion either on the door step or on the street, Corbyn is in a coocoon of supporter and seems like he thinks it , well idont knoow he is lost in the population

[tinfoilhat]

Hundreds of cases - thousands for all I know. All family courts are now secret courts, and that power is regularly abused. Anything to do with 'Terroriism' (and that can mean just about anything from protesting to serious stuff) can be held in a secret court. The press is up in arms about the reporting restrictions the government are trying to impose on them, (the MPs Expenses scandal would not have got out now)

 

If you want a good example of how far we've come, just google 'Melanie Shaw.' Go on, I dare you...

 

Found an article about a woman with that name convicted off setting fire to someone's shed in Nottingham, in the Nottingham post - I only skimmed it but the court didn't seem secret. The various "conspiracy" sites suggested it was a fit up and it was the same person in the court case in the Nottingham post. I'll read on it later - busy day tomorrow.

[unbeliever]

Regarding Trump, and his apologists such as this Piers Morgans guy.

 

I think if Trump conducted himself in a more responsible, respectful manner, that people would give him a little benefit of the doubt.

But loud mouthed disrespectful bullies are disliked by decent people.

 

The only type of people who admire them are people with similar attitudes.

 

Trump does not deserve any leeway, and should be replaced by someone who can represent the type of people who elevated him to power.

 

But that person should not be a ranting, semi literate maniac.

 

I don't like Trump.

But there is something profoundly wrong with preventing people from having their say. I'd like nothing more than if Piers Morgan never spoke again, but I would never take action to silence him.

Let him speak and then tell him and his audience that he's profoundly wrong. That's how it's supposed to work.

If you don't do this, then you have no right to call your self "liberal" and nobody in their right mind will call you "progressive".

[Cyclone]

Do tell. How many cases? How many of those cases are high profile or involve national security both real and imagined?

The fact that secret courts exist is contrary to any notion of justice.

In other news "progressives" have banded together to get piers Morgan to drop out of a presenting gig. The crime they're pinning on him is that he's defending trump. To be fair, the most I've seen him say is to give trump time, but on the other hand I try to avoid anything piers Morgan says because he's an odious, poisonous bully who makes me want to commit violent acts, mainly against piers Morgan. I like the fact he's being deprived a fee paying gig (although he did offer to do it for free when he realised the strength of feeling against him) but it's this sort of division (over some telly awards ffs) that does the country no good at all.

So people don't like him. There is no universal right to be liked.

[Jacktari]

The fact that secret courts exist is contrary to any notion of justice.

So people don't like him. There is no universal right to be liked.

Don't tell Trump that.

His whole ego is built on the premise that everyone loves him.

[Jonny5]

There is a lot of confusion in this country about the Left.

 

People seem to think that because the Tories are Right they are the de facto regressive party. Well they are regressive that's for sure. However their natural opponents are the Liberals NOT the Labour party.

 

The Labour party is the most regressive of all the main parties. They want everyone to be serfs to the government and paying subs to the union. It doesn't get more regressive than that.

 

It's incredibly stupid to think that my enemies (the Tories) enemy is my friend. Labour are far worse for everyone as has been shown time and time again.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Jonny5

[unbeliever]

There is a lotest of confusion in this country about the Left.

 

People seem to think that because the Tories are Right they are the de facto regressive party. Well they are regressive that's for sure. However their natural opponents are the Liberals NOT the Labour party.

 

The Labour party is the most regressive of all the main parties. They want everyone to be serfs to the government and paying subs to the union. It doesn't get more regressive than that.

 

It's incredibly stupid to think that my enemies (the Tories) enemy is my friend. Labour are far worse for everyone as has been shown time and time again.

 

The liberals have a lot to be proud of. But you can't be progressive if you're not a democrat. A conflict has arisen between technocracy and democracy. They've chosen poorly.