Taxi Driver protests against legislation.

[SheffTF]

It's a free market and it's perfectly legal.

 

I'm not Sheffield born & bred, and I know I'd fail miserably if I was being tested on my local knowledge of the every possible route to get from A to B.

 

Can you see why the Council's licencing requirements have little relevence to today's methods of navigating?

 

Heck even the DVLA are now testing new drivers on their ability to navigate using GPS navigation. It's part of the new syllabus and part of everyday life.

Why do I get the feeling you are an Uber stooge?

It's a regular ploy of uber to portray it's technology as superior and people's knowledge through experience as irrelevant and yet we have regular incidence of drivers going wrong way down one way streets and many not knowing taxis can use bus lanes and bus gates and only following their sat navs the long way round. In most cases when the driver knows where he is going he is relaxed and concentrates on his driving and not one eye on the sat nav and a nervous wreck and a danger to passengers and other road users. You cannot replace local knowledge of people who live locally by a sat nav.

[sgtkate]

Why do I get the feeling you are an Uber stooge?

It's a regular ploy of uber to portray it's technology as superior and people's knowledge through experience as irrelevant and yet we have regular incidence of drivers going wrong way down one way streets and many not knowing taxis can use bus lanes and bus gates and only following their sat navs the long way round. In most cases when the driver knows where he is going he is relaxed and concentrates on his driving and not one eye on the sat nav and a nervous wreck and a danger to passengers and other road users. You cannot replace local knowledge of people who live locally by a sat nav.

 

Of course you can. Do you know when there's been an accident on a route? No you don't, but you your sat nav does. Do you know if there's a particularly busy road on your route? Nope. Sat nav does though. So for all of this talk about local knowledge a sat nav will nearly always do a better job. There are 'taxi' sat navs as well that include bus lanes and know you can use them so route you that way so even that isn't local knowledge anymore. I'd not playing your knowledge down, being a cabbie isn't the type of job I could do but I just think that a lot of the thinking around local knowledge is often beaten by a sat nav. To get me home from town you have at least 3 routes on main roads, a sat nav will already know what the traffic is like on those 3 routes when I jump in my car so sends me the quietest and quickest route, if you are solely relying on your head to get me home you'd likely pick the route most likely to be quiet even though you don't know that. The perfect combination is going to be a local cabbie armed with a sat nav I'd guess!

[SheffTF]

Now we've got a proper discussion going. I see where you are coming from, but I don't agree. I don't think Uber or others going to TFL are 'hiding' anything, I genuinely think that SCC are far too harsh in their licensing with no benefit to either driver or passenger. DBS checks are an absolute minimum and if Uber ever didn't have those or any taxi then I wouldn't use them, but they remain for every driver regardless of company they work for. The knowledge test is pointless in my opinion and usage of technology should be tested instead. I'd say language test was important as if you can't communicate with your driver then there are clearly potential issues there. So if we can find a better system than what we have now that makes things easier for the good drivers, harder or impossible for the bad ones and protects passengers, then I'm all for it; Uber or not.

Exactly, we agree on something at last I was present at a meeting where Uber representative put it to the Council to abandon the local knowledge test, which was rejected by SCC. Uber challenged and lost against TFL to no test drivers for English tests even. So the motivation is to create a free for all and a saturation of the market where any Tom Dick and Harry can drive for Uber and all working for below minimum wage. I would not have any objection to Uber if they became another competitor taxi company and competed on quality and service rather than being hell bent on reducing standards.

Sheffield testing standards have been arrived at through necessity to improve standards and it is precisely because of the stricter regime that we have avoided the fiasco of Rotherham only 5 miles away.

To have SCC enforcement is essential in maintaining standards of car repair and ensuring the drivers licensed are the ones actually driving the vehicle. Why should Sheffield be spending resources when TFL have collected money for the licences which include enforcement costs? A level playing field is what Sheffield drivers are demanding. To be fair to the Police, they have enough on their plate at week end nights to monitor taxi transgressions, they are only too happy for town to clear who ever takes people home and how much they are charged is not their headache.

 

---------- Post added 30-03-2017 at 16:36 ----------

 

Of course you can. Do you know when there's been an accident on a route? No you don't, but you your sat nav does. Do you know if there's a particularly busy road on your route? Nope. Sat nav does though. So for all of this talk about local knowledge a sat nav will nearly always do a better job. There are 'taxi' sat navs as well that include bus lanes and know you can use them so route you that way so even that isn't local knowledge anymore. I'd not playing your knowledge down, being a cabbie isn't the type of job I could do but I just think that a lot of the thinking around local knowledge is often beaten by a sat nav. To get me home from town you have at least 3 routes on main roads, a sat nav will already know what the traffic is like on those 3 routes when I jump in my car so sends me the quietest and quickest route, if you are solely relying on your head to get me home you'd likely pick the route most likely to be quiet even though you don't know that. The perfect combination is going to be a local cabbie armed with a sat nav I'd guess!

we're getting there, slowly but surely you will appreciate there is no substitute for experience. Finding the most direct and best rout for the time of day also varies and sat navs don't always guide you through the 'taxi' route option, I know because I have used and tested them. The best one is Waze, a free app that Uber drivers use and it does not work as well as the local knowledge I assure you. Other safeguarding issues are a major concern especially after what happened in Rotherham and to not have safeguards in place is negligence by the authorities. They themselves annoyed but are helpless in face of half way house legislation designed to give uber an escape hole. If a driver moving to Sheffield and already is a licence holder, I could understand his facilitation in finding work without having to go through another testing process but this systematic abuse by Uber is unacceptable and worth the taxi trade putting up a fight for.

 

I would want you to join the FB group Sheffield Taxi Forum, it is a closed trade only group but much of this is discussed there but from trade's perspective including many Uber drivers. message me if you wish to join and under what name I can ask admins to allow you to take part in discussions there yourself and you may well have a change of heart ....

Edited March 30, 2017 by SheffTF

[Puggie]

you are an Uber stooge

 

No I'm actually a student and have an interest in emerging trends that are disrupting traditional business, like the sharing economy.

[SheffTF]

No I'm actually a student and have an interest in emerging trends that are disrupting traditional business, like the sharing economy.

Hardly a disruption if the only aim is to disregard the law and pretend they are something they have invented for for themselves. Had it been as radical as the shift was from horse drawn carriage to the combustion engine, we could appreciate the difference but this is merely a pretense to be different whilst essentially doing the same as others but just attaching a different name to it in order not to obey the law.

 

---------- Post added 30-03-2017 at 17:44 ----------

 

No I'm actually a student and have an interest in emerging trends that are disrupting traditional business, like the sharing economy.

Using the same model could you foresee many other trades who need qualifications and need to be licensed to operate their business to then call it by another silly name and pretend the law of the land does not or should not apply to them because they've now renamed themselves? It is not a truly sharing economy if all it is doing is verbal gymnastics.

[*_ash_*]

 

That's why I said I am not particularly fussed about the underlying badge.

 

Most people aren't really, I know that.

 

Students in particular look first at price, hence why Uber targeted these heavily.

 

-

 

Ash, I do agree with you completely, but Uber isn't the issue here, it's the entire licensing system allowing local councils to set their own rules that is the problem.

 

I'll answer your post in more depth as I know you aren't a moron. You're right that Uber isn't the issue, but councils licensing their own rules has worked fine for decades (London exception), I do know times are a changing , but the changes were too much in one go - they were ill-thought out and pushed into it by competition laws / poor quality decision makers who like in a lot of things today are paid/bullied by the big boys...

 

genuine drivers all over the country - specifically in cities - have ended up in just a few months having the whole trade and fairness thrown back at them.

 

My view is this. The deregulation was too much, too quick, and without enough thought. I have absolutely no problem with Uber operating in Sheffield, with Sheffield drivers. The problem is the algorithm doesn't work like this, otherwise someone else would have done it years ago.

 

-

 

This next bit sgt, I answered (and asked) a short while ago and the thread ended up pulled or summat... I don't know if you saw it or not... It's a shame it got lost, I was interested in this one-rule for all thing...

 

If you and SheffTF were arguing for equal rules UK wide then you'd have my support, but as SheffTF (I don't know exactly what you want?) seems to think that only Sheffield drivers should be allowed to work in Sheffield because they have some mystical 'knowledge' skills that are rarely shown by any taxi driver (City, black cab or Uber) then I simply don't agree. Sat navs are the way forward and not relying on some cabbies memory skills to get from A to B. Sat navs show traffic and can route you around the blockage, your memory cannot, sat navs can also offer confidence to the passenger in an unknown city, they can see the route on the screen and what the driver does so they can see if they are being taken the looooooooooooooooooong route.

The issue for me is solely down to different standards being applied in different locations and that needs to stop, but beyond that it just sounds like a lot of complaining from people who don't want to adapt.

 

This is the idealistic answer (that's why it sounds right! ), and that's why pretty much 100% of the population who doesn't know the ins and outs of this particular issue would agree with this.

 

These are some of the problems with this: I'll number them, so I can hear your thoughts.

 

(edit: anyone free to answer please, these are all genuine questions)

 

1. Do you know that our insurance is different depending on which town or city we are licensed with?

 

So if all centralised, all the same, then do you think it's fair a 1 man taxi company in Forumville Village (pop. 162) pays the same insurance as me? I spend 7 days a week driving in a busy city, and one where people often make mistakes!

 

So should all insurances rise to Sheffield rates (which are high) or village rates? What is the fair balance?

 

2. Vehicles have 'shelf lives' that is currently different in different places. In Sheffield I can use mine for 9 years, In chesterfield it is longer (not sure) but I saw an 02 plate picking up the other day. This is fair, a vehicle in a big city gets more hammer perhaps, busier and more mileage, what about smaller towns, how long should they have the vehicle for sgt?

 

What is a fair figure that would be fair to everyone in the country?

 

3. Here is a list. Pick out which ones you agree should included in a taxi test:

 

Local knowledge / being able to speak English pretty well / being able to do fairly basic Maths tests / A council officer meeting you several times before getting your license / MoT + a similarly long list of other compliances / driving test /

 

Do you want the vehicles that are used to be of MoT standard, or SCC standard (which is strict) - rightly imo

 

If the standard is as high as Sheffield then drivers in small towns will not only be paying more insurance, but have potentially ridiculously over the top rules

 

4. Again vehicles: what would members consider to be standard for ALL taxis, whether London or Hathersage:...

 

4.1 should windows be allowed to be tinted or blacked out?

4.2 should there be a boot space minimum?

4.3 as before, should there be an age limit?

4.4 can other posters not ruin this thread please?

4.5 if picking up in the street, what are the minimum standards of vehicle?

4.6 What signage should be shown on ALL vehicle PHVs?

4.7 What percentage of a population should have enough vehicles (either PHV or Hack) that have wheelchair access?

 

Personally I don't think it's possible to have a fair system for all.

 

I'd like to hear any answers to these few things though , these were just off the top of my head

 

The vehicle would have to be so specific that you'd end up with a black cab type vehicle, and we'd just end up back in 1826 or whatever

[taxman]

I just think taxi drivers have such difficult jobs for so little reward. I just cannot believe that so many of them only make less profit than the annual tax allowance...every year. Makes me wonder why they do it at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Puggie]

I just cannot believe that so many of them only make less profit than the annual tax allowance...every year.

 

Taxman you trying to open a whole new can of worms?

[*_ash_*]

I just think taxi drivers have such difficult jobs for so little reward. I just cannot believe that so many of them only make less profit than the annual tax allowance...every year. Makes me wonder why they do it at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taxman you trying to open a whole new can of worms?

 

 

No worms need opening.

 

I'll put this challenge up.

 

If taxman is still dating the person he was when I met him and she confirms it via PM, then I'll email him my last years accounts, and he can scrutinise every bit of it and post his findings in here (but not my info of course).

 

I've nearly finished this years too. I'll send him that too and I'll pay him the £150 I paid the last accountant to send it for me, if he'll put his name on it.

[Puggie]

It's clearly a system that's working for some

 

SheffTF - this is a video for you considering how much you love Uber