More 0 hours workers than ever..

[sgtkate]

NO the can't. Have you ever run a business? Not every business and service requires staff at all times all year round.

 

Shops, restaurants, bars, hotels, leisure attractions and special events have surges and drops in demand and the staff are therefore adjusted to suit. Christmas for example requires a hell of a lot more during its couple of weeks to say mid January and last week in march.

 

We then have special events that happen only a few times a year. Seasonal work in coastal leisure attractions who may only be open limited periods each year and only have high demand during certain holidays.

 

Behind all that will be the factories, producers, distribution and warehousing whose demand will also dramatically fluctuate during the year accordingly.

 

You don't pay for staff to sit their scratching their backside all day. Perhaps all these anti ZHC campaigners would prefer it if employers recruited people on 2 day contracts instead. I'm sure that would improve things greatly.

 

No temporary role is ideal but its work. Those who dont like doing it should look for something else and leave for a more permanent role. Its a fill in - always has been always will be. Its great for those with children and those studying at university.

 

It is never supposed to be equivalent to a full-time career role and people need to stop pretending these jobs should be.

 

So hire people on contracts with fixed hours suitable to the amount of work coming in. You can hire people on short term contracts as well but you must guarantee them certain hours of work. If you can't plan that then your business must be either terribly managed or about to fail.

 

Honestly there should be a minimum hours limit for people who opt-in, make it reasonable and low like 12 hours a week, and if your employee at anytime wants the minimum then it is applied to their contract and it can't be removed for 6 months unless the business agrees. That would allow those people who do want to flexibility of ZHCs to have it, and would stop businesses taking the proverbial about wanting their cake and eating it.

 

People are citing seasonal work as if it's something special. Companies have had seasonal workers since the industrial revolution and you can quite easily hire staff on a fixed term contract to cover just that period so you still don't need a ZHC.

[Obelix]

That's another area that needs looking at; the self-employed.

 

Many people, particularly the over 50s, are so desperate to work they are using what little money they have to set up their own businesses, working hard, taking out far less than even the minimum wage, and ultimately losing the lot. 80% of new businesses fail.

 

On top of that you have the people who are employed, but classed as self-employed to save the employers money once again. People like some delivery drivers, etc.

 

Add them all together; 0 hours contracts,temporary contracts, unscrupulous agencies, dodgy self employed status, and there is a fair amount of sharp practise and exploitation going on.

 

But according to some people on here, that's just fine. I'm all right Jack.

 

What chance is there when even people from the same social group won't stand up for each other, and particularly those worse off than themselves. Don't they realise it could be them next?

 

I'm still waiting for an answer to post #57....

 

Whilst pondering that one, I'll pipck apart your latest "the sky is falling it's sooo soo terrible" routine...

 

There are "many" - how many? of people "particularly" - what specifics?

 

The are "fair amounts" of "sharp" practices. Indeed. How fair and how sharp?

 

"according to some people" i.e. we will finger those people we don't like as being those that disagree with me but we wont name them because then I can deny I meant them....

 

It's a poor rant Anna, and without actually crystallising what your concerns are - as you have been asked many times before - it'll remain as it is.

 

I'm self employed. So are most of the people that I know personally. A fair number of them work ZHC as they like the flexibility. Some people I know are salaried. They like the stability. So why should they change or defend their choice of employment because you feel uneasy? Why should they accept intrusive government probes because of this? That's where this is leading to.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2017 at 10:19 ----------

 

If you can't plan that then your business must be either terribly managed or about to fail.

 

I'm so glad to be told I'm a terrible business owner but I've not come close to going bust yet....

[tinfoilhat]

I know a lot of businesses fail regardless of age, (probably because there isn't much help available IMO) but when the person is over 50 and putting all their savings, redundancy, pension or whatever into it, and it fails, there is not much chance of them ever getting it back and they face a very impoverished old age.

 

They might not be forced into it, but faced with redundancy / unemployment at 50+ means they may not be able to get JSA because they have some savings in the bank, and they are unlikely to be able to get a job because employers prefer younger workers. Put yourself in that position for a moment. What would you do?

 

I've given this a bit of thought. My default answer to anyone starting their own business, particularly one that involves a big chunk of start up money is "don't bother".

 

But if you're over 50, had a nice stable job my and you fancy making that hobby you love into a business, my answer would be "seriously, don't bother". You aren't going to be able to take that holiday when you want, look after the grand kids when ever it's needed. The first 6 months (and then some) you won't get a break. You won't be enjoying that hobby anymore, you're running a business. Which is why those little craft shops (and it's always those little craft shops ) hit the wall.

 

My local Aldi is always looking for staff. Work there. 20 hours a week, decent hourly rate. That's what I'd do.

[PeteMorris]

Ok, here's my 'take' on ZHC's.

 

My OH was struggling to find 'any' sort of work, although she's very experienced in office administration. She ended up getting a job with a well known hotelier as a housekeeper on a ZHC.

 

She only had the misfortune to work there for around six months, during which time, there were 3 occasions when (having to be there for 7:30am), We arrived on the car park only for her to get a message on her phone not to bother today, we don't need you.

 

She had to work all the unsociable days, Saturdays, Sundays, Christmas Day, Boxing day...etc....Complain?...Workers are ten a penny, you don't get offered 'any' work. Like it or lump it. Also, you don't get paid any 'premium' rate for working Christmas, or new year. Just flat minimum wage. It might sound a very lowly sort of job, but I assure you it's hard physical work, back breaking and draining. I used to pick her up some days and she'd be in tears. It was heartbreaking.

 

Budgeting? That was an impossibility. We had no clue from one week to the next (paid monthly), how much money she would be earning. Especially in the 'off' season, winter.

 

Benefits?...Nope...Nothing because I work.

 

So you can probably guess my attitude about ZHC. It's used by employers in entirely the wrong way. It doesn't 'help' people, it restricts their lifestyle and social life.

 

I'll accept, 'some' people may like it. But spare a thought. If you're not 'available' 24/7, or say I don't want to work this Saturday...Or whatever, this 'is' used against you in the form of not being offered other days. It's little short of being bullied and abused.

 

Thankfully, she now has a full time job, not the best (but that's another story) and a full time 'proper' contract, and we know exactly how much money is coming into the household and can manage our money accordingly.

 

I believe you can only appreciate how subversive these ZHC's are, if you've experienced it first hand.

 

So no lectures please.

[Obelix]

So no lectures please.

 

Because you think you are right and won't brook no countenance? You get to put your side of the story and then forbid people from putting their side or opinions?

 

World doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

[sgtkate]

I'm still waiting for an answer to post #57....

 

Whilst pondering that one, I'll pipck apart your latest "the sky is falling it's sooo soo terrible" routine...

 

There are "many" - how many? of people "particularly" - what specifics?

 

The are "fair amounts" of "sharp" practices. Indeed. How fair and how sharp?

 

"according to some people" i.e. we will finger those people we don't like as being those that disagree with me but we wont name them because then I can deny I meant them....

 

It's a poor rant Anna, and without actually crystallising what your concerns are - as you have been asked many times before - it'll remain as it is.

 

I'm self employed. So are most of the people that I know personally. A fair number of them work ZHC as they like the flexibility. Some people I know are salaried. They like the stability. So why should they change or defend their choice of employment because you feel uneasy? Why should they accept intrusive government probes because of this? That's where this is leading to.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2017 at 10:19 ----------

 

 

I'm so glad to be told I'm a terrible business owner but I've not come close to going bust yet....

 

So why do you use ZHCs? What business reason other than greed do you have?

[Obelix]

If you are going to walk into this assuming that I'm doing from greed then I'm not even going to bother debating it with you.

[tinfoilhat]

Ok, here's my 'take' on ZHC's.

 

My OH was struggling to find 'any' sort of work, although she's very experienced in office administration. She ended up getting a job with a well known hotelier as a housekeeper on a ZHC.

 

She only had the misfortune to work there for around six months, during which time, there were 3 occasions when (having to be there for 7:30am), We arrived on the car park only for her to get a message on her phone not to bother today, we don't need you.

 

She had to work all the unsociable days, Saturdays, Sundays, Christmas Day, Boxing day...etc....Complain?...Workers are ten a penny, you don't get offered 'any' work. Like it or lump it. Also, you don't get paid any 'premium' rate for working Christmas, or new year. Just flat minimum wage. It might sound a very lowly sort of job, but I assure you it's hard physical work, back breaking and draining. I used to pick her up some days and she'd be in tears. It was heartbreaking.

 

Budgeting? That was an impossibility. We had no clue from one week to the next (paid monthly), how much money she would be earning. Especially in the 'off' season, winter.

 

Benefits?...Nope...Nothing because I work.

 

So you can probably guess my attitude about ZHC. It's used by employers in entirely the wrong way. It doesn't 'help' people, it restricts their lifestyle and social life.

 

I'll accept, 'some' people may like it. But spare a thought. If you're not 'available' 24/7, or say I don't want to work this Saturday...Or whatever, this 'is' used against you in the form of not being offered other days. It's little short of being bullied and abused.

 

Thankfully, she now has a full time job, not the best (but that's another story) and a full time 'proper' contract, and we know exactly how much money is coming into the household and can manage our money accordingly.

 

I believe you can only appreciate how subversive these ZHC's are, if you've experienced it first hand.

 

So no lectures please.

 

I can understand the use of zhc at a big hotel, I can even understand a phone call at 7.30 saying "come in now" but I don't understand being told you aren't needed when you've got there.

[PeteMorris]

Because you think you are right and won't brook no countenance? You get to put your side of the story and then forbid people from putting their side or opinions?

 

World doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

 

Oh here we go.....

[Obelix]

Oh here we go.....

 

It's your choice if you want to throw toys out but stopping reasonable debate because you don't like it is never going to be a solution.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2017 at 11:33 ----------

 

I don't understand being told you aren't needed when you've got there.

 

That's unreasonable yes and I can well understand that as being the source of considerable annoyance.