2017 Spring Budget...

[unbeliever]

I know that, then we must find another way, if batteries are unfeasible. We are capable of doing anything if we put our collective minds to it.

 

I don't think so. Batteries are the way.

The number of charge cycles a battery can go through before being wrecked has gone from hundreds to thousands. This technology is so far only in the cutting edge teslas but it's a matter of time before it becomes standard. This is a result of re-engineering the electrodes rather than some radical new battery technology.

 

Now you're still stuck with a range of a couple of hundred miles even if the batteries get cheap and you can double up on them (which I think will probably happen). That might go up to 400 if they manage to get Lithium-Air batteries working, but that's probably at least 20 years off before you even start to see those.

So you really need to get the charge time down.

 

There are 2 ways to do this.

1. Standardise the battery packs and build them so that they're removable. Rather than charging them at refuelling stations, just exchange your flat batteries for charged ones.

2. Re-engineer the batteries so that the Lithium is removable. Then when you pull in at a refuelling station, they can suck out the Lithium Oxide and replace it with fresh Lithium, then reduce your Lithium Oxide back down to Lithium and sell it to the next guy.

 

The former is probably more practical as nothing has to be invented. It's not practical right now because you're mostly paying for batter wear rather than electricity.

 

What I'm saying is that battery vehicles are on the way. You have to wait a bit longer before they're affordable and properly environmentally friendly but it's coming. Maybe 20 years before pretty much all new cars are battery.

 

Now here is the big problem. Electricity. We don't have enough. We really can't get enough from wind and solar and other renewables. And if we get it from Gas then we've not achieved anything as we're still pumping out CO2.

It's going to have to be nuclear. If we mess around trying to use anything else, it won't be ready in time for when the battery cars are ready and we'll burn a absolute shed load of oil that we didn't need to. Dithering is the worst possible thing we can do on this. We need nuclear, we need lots of it and we need to start now.

[Jacktari]

I don't think so. Batteries are the way.

The number of charge cycles a battery can go through before being wrecked has gone from hundreds to thousands. This technology is so far only in the cutting edge teslas but it's a matter of time before it becomes standard. This is a result of re-engineering the electrodes rather than some radical new battery technology.

 

Now you're still stuck with a range of a couple of hundred miles even if the batteries get cheap and you can double up on them (which I think will probably happen). That might go up to 400 if they manage to get Lithium-Air batteries working, but that's probably at least 20 years off before you even start to see those.

So you really need to get the charge time down.

 

There are 2 ways to do this.

1. Standardise the battery packs and build them so that they're removable. Rather than charging them at refuelling stations, just exchange your flat batteries for charged ones.

2. Re-engineer the batteries so that the Lithium is removable. Then when you pull in at a refuelling station, they can suck out the Lithium Oxide and replace it with fresh Lithium, then reduce your Lithium Oxide back down to Lithium and sell it to the next guy.

 

The former is probably more practical as nothing has to be invented. It's not practical right now because you're mostly paying for batter wear rather than electricity.

 

What I'm saying is that battery vehicles are on the way. You have to wait a bit longer before they're affordable and properly environmentally friendly but it's coming. Maybe 20 years before pretty much all new cars are battery.

 

Now here is the big problem. Electricity. We don't have enough. We really can't get enough from wind and solar and other renewables. And if we get it from Gas then we've not achieved anything as we're still pumping out CO2.

It's going to have to be nuclear. If we mess around trying to use anything else, it won't be ready in time for when the battery cars are ready and we'll burn a absolute shed load of oil that we didn't need to. Dithering is the worst possible thing we can do on this. We need nuclear, we need lots of it and we need to start now.

 

Thanks for that info. :thumbsup: That is very informative.

 

I must agree that nuclear power seems to be the way forward, but we need to learn to control it in a safe manner.

[unbeliever]

I must agree that nuclear power seems to be the way forward, but we need to learn to control it in a safe manner.

 

I'm of the view that we've learned that. France have run on 70-80% nuclear for decades without a serious incident. It's not a perfect option, but the only option which really will radically cut our CO2 output in the 30 year timescale we've agreed to target.

It throws up other problems, but those are not end-of-the-world problems, which is what we're told we're facing with CO2.

[Billam]

..is coming tomorrow (Wednesday 8 March), the last such Spring event; future ones will be in the Autumn, inc. this year, replacing the Autumn /Statement. There'll presumably also henceforth be a Spring Statement!

 

So this thread is for coverage and comments.

For an initial BBC item, mostly guesswork, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39187570

So much for keeping the price of beer low, the breweries have just upped the price now he puts 2p on a pint, that means 5 to 10p.

[unbeliever]

So much for keeping the price of beer low, the breweries have just upped the price now he puts 2p on a pint, that means 5 to 10p.

 

Black sheep is currently £1.25 from Aldi. If that goes up I shall have to have words with Mr Hammond.

[tinfoilhat]

You could offset the costs for haulage against other taxes. London's solution is a ultra low emission zone, which restricts diesel vehicles. Anyway obviously Phil didn't think it would be a good idea either, no scrappage scheme.

 

---------- Post added 08-03-2017 at 17:36 ----------

 

 

On me as well, but the CO2 emissions benefit of diesel still stands especially for longer jouneys, but I now choose not to drive my car regularly or at all on short journeys in cities.

 

---------- Post added 08-03-2017 at 17:40 ----------

 

 

There are electric hybrids available for most sizes of vehicle including buses and HGVs.

 

I've never seen an equivalent transit or sprinter that isn't a diesel. That's an awful lot of vans.

[unbeliever]

I've never seen an equivalent transit or sprinter that isn't a diesel. That's an awful lot of vans.

 

The battery ones will come. Petrol motors don't have enough torque but electric motors do.

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/e-nv200.html

[mafya]

I've never seen an equivalent transit or sprinter that isn't a diesel. That's an awful lot of vans.

 

They do make them,

 

Petrol and lpg transits= http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xtransit+petrol.TRS0&_nkw=transit+petrol&_sacat=0

 

Petrol and lpg sprinter= http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=transit+petrol&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H0.Xsprinter+petrol.TRS0&_nkw=sprinter+petrol&_sacat=0

[tinfoilhat]

They do make them,

 

Petrol and lpg transits= http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xtransit+petrol.TRS0&_nkw=transit+petrol&_sacat=0

 

Petrol and lpg sprinter= http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=transit+petrol&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H0.Xsprinter+petrol.TRS0&_nkw=sprinter+petrol&_sacat=0

 

Anything that isn't 14 years old ;)

 

I knew a guy who used to run around in an old transit ambulance with an old V8 petrol lump in it. Thirsty but it did shift. 20 years ago more petrol vans were available, its dropped to next to nothing. Vw caddy size are starting to turn up again but they aren't shifting alot of weight. Bigger vans i.e. Practically every large courier/fridge van in the country is a diesel.

 

---------- Post added 08-03-2017 at 19:15 ----------

 

The battery ones will come. Petrol motors don't have enough torque but electric motors do.

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/e-nv200.html

 

For city work they'd be excellent. For longer distance or mixed driving, diesel is still king. I was going to say for rural areas too but I read an article on how northern Norway has embraced electric cars which surprised me.

[ez8004]

Thanks for that info. :thumbsup: That is very informative.

 

I must agree that nuclear power seems to be the way forward, but we need to learn to control it in a safe manner.

 

It is people like you with an incomplete or misguided understanding on nuclear power that ends up limiting its deserved advancement and proliferation. They are very safe and emissions free. We are currently on the third generation of PWRs which is what Hinckley C will based on.