Another vote t'other side of the Border.

[L00b]

Independence referenda are a matter for the Westminster parliament, and it wasn't in their 2015 manifesto on which their Westminster MPs were elected.

That manifesto indicated that they accepted the result of the previous vote.

Well, boo-f****-hoo, mate: it's a majority of 2016-elected Holyrood MSPs that want IndyRef2, not a majority of the 2015-elected Scottish subset of Westminster MPs.

[unbeliever]

Well, boo-[expletive deleted]-hoo, mate: it's a majority of 2016-elected Holyrood MSPs that want IndyRef2, not a majority of the 2015-elected Scottish subset of Westminster MPs.

 

Please take out the masked swearing before the moderators start deleting posts en-masse.

The constitutional arrangements are pretty clear. Holyrood does not have power in this matter.

 

And as I keep saying, despite the fact the the polls don't indicate they want one, we should probably give them one anyway. But the terms and timing will be set by the sovereign government of Westminster, not the devolved assembly in Holyrood.

That is what is required under the law, endorsed by the people of Scotland in a referendum only 2 and a half years ago.. They voted to remain part of the national governance of the United Kingdom. It's ridiculous that you would pretend this invalid with the ink on that mandate still not dry.

[L00b]

The constitutional arrangements are pretty clear. Holyrood does not have power in this matter.

Yes, we know all about sovereignty deficit in this day and age

And as I keep saying, despite the fact the the polls don't indicate they want one, we should probably give them one anyway. But the terms and timing will be set by the sovereign government of Westminster, not the devolved assembly in Holyrood.

You're in for a shock, methinks. Watch this space.

That is what is required under the law, endorsed by the people of Scotland in a referendum only 2 and a half years ago.. They voted to remain part of the national governance of the United Kingdom. It's ridiculous that you would pretend this invalid with the ink on that mandate still not dry.

I'm not pretending that it's invalid at all.

 

I just don't wear the sort of blinkers, under which people living in a democracy are not allowed to change their collective mind, regardless of any timescales.

 

And if IndyRef2 gets Leavers all frothy-mouthed, well that's just bonus points, innit?

[unbeliever]

Of course they're entitled to change their mind.

I never suggested otherwise.

 

Thing is that they haven't. The SNP have just decided to throw a narcissistic tantrum.

Nor have the UK people changed their mind on Brexit by the way.

Edited March 29, 2017 by unbeliever

[apelike]

Which they have abjectly failed to do. If the EU is competent, then it should reject the Article 50 notice as having failed to meet the constitutional requirements.

That would be fun to watch from a safe distance...

 

The government have listened and in the latest case also rejected and have only defied convention and not any law. As far as the constitutional requirements are concerned in the make up of the UK and dealing with Scotland they were spelt out by the judge in the appeal court case. In this case foreign affairs are reserved for the UK parliament in which Scotland are also part of and the Sewel convention only applies to devolved matters. Therefore any constitutional requirement re the EU and A50 seem to have been met and probably the reason why Scotland have not challenged the decision.

[Berberis]

What`s particularly interesting is that Theresa May is not wanting the referendum at the time when it`s actually most sensible for the Scots to have the referendum, assuming they want to stay in the EU, so

 

Becoming a member of the EU takes longer than 2 years.

[andyofborg]

Becoming a member of the EU takes longer than 2 years.

 

it doesn't have too.....

 

scottish law and institutions should meet all the eu requirements.

 

the scottish government can say that scotland will join the euro once the necessary economic conditions are met, these are likely to take many years to achieve so it can carry on using the scottish pound.

 

the only thing stopping scotland becoming a member of the eu within months, would be other members wary of this driving forward separatist's in their own country and that's hardly scotlands problem.

[phil752]

with a population less than Yorkshire and Humberside, why do we allow the Scotish tail to wage the dog?

[Berberis]

it doesn't have too.....

 

scottish law and institutions should meet all the eu requirements.

 

the scottish government can say that scotland will join the euro once the necessary economic conditions are met, these are likely to take many years to achieve so it can carry on using the scottish pound.

 

the only thing stopping scotland becoming a member of the eu within months, would be other members wary of this driving forward separatist's in their own country and that's hardly scotlands problem.

 

No other country has joined the EU in less time and considering the Scottish do not want to join the Euro, they would not fulfill all the criteria to join. Then you have to understand the EU already has a busy workload and another country trying to join would need to join the queue. Then you have to convince Spain to agree Scottish ascension, which they will not do in the first place.

 

There is no chance Scotland could, hold a referendum, detach itself from the UK, formally request to join the EU, have their application approved and then join in less than 2 years. Anyone who thinks this could be done is deluded.

[andyofborg]

The SNP have just decided to throw a narcissistic tantrum.

 

they haven't done that though

 

the position of the snp on independence has been clear since it's founding.

 

had the rest of the uk voted to remain in the EU or Mrs May taken note of someone other than boris and liam then i doubt we would be talking about a second referendum now

 

mrs may is in a no-win situation, largely of her own making, allowing a second referendum while brexit is ongoing is obviously going to be a major distraction for the england government though they would probably win it. on the other hand, denying it leaves the way open for the snp to paint the english government as being populated with anti-scotland tories and i'm sure they will do at every opportunity in this situation then victory is not assured.

 

---------- Post added 29-03-2017 at 14:33 ----------

 

No other country has joined the EU in less time

 

maybe not, but as i've pointed out, given they already are Members then the body of scottish law and it's institutions should meet all the requirements for scotland to join, no other country has been in that position.

 

as far as the euro goes, then all the scottish government needs to do is give an assurance that it will once the economic criteria are met. given that will take decades to happen it's not much of promise to make.

 

an alternative, to EU membership would be either EFTA or EEA membership which would give pretty much all the things which Scotland wants with less of a downside.