Flexo Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I dont think that anyone who is working and self supporting should leave. Anyone currently in the UK should be given an indefinite working visa. The trouble with this simplistic thinking is unintended effects. You may have a hospital consultant whose partner is a home maker and looks after their children. You say that their partner must be expelled? When their children of working age they must be expelled too? Would the consultant have come to make their home here if such a regime was in place? Will people in future trust that the UK is a stable place to make their home when they have seen how suddenly the rules may change and they are removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 There is no way that anyone on minimum wage can afford to live in London unless they are being subsidised by the state and by councils. That means that companies like Costa Coffee who are only obliged to pay minimum wage are not paying their employees a living wage. Some EU citizens are forced to live in up to 20 people in a 3 bed house to make ends meet. So councils are forced to help EU citizens with kids to council accommodation which they don't have. So having kids is a key to unlock all the riches that our state system has to offer. Seasonal workers are basically slave labour with most earning about 2 per hour after deductions from agencies, accommodation and food etc. It was Big Business that did not want Brexit and this endless flow of cheap labour to stop. But its the state who cannot afford to keep subsidising these companies who dont even pay any corporation tax. But what puzzles me most is that the liberal left were against Brexit. Can't they see that free movement of people is what is crippling our economy and our public services. Anti-capitalists who are now pro Europe is insane. My bold= Nobody is forcing them they do it out of choice to keep expenditure down meaning more money to send back home to family. ---------- Post added 25-04-2017 at 12:37 ---------- Wanting to give a unilateral guarantee to EU citizens without a reciprocal agreement for uk citizens living in the EU is a **** take IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkylinePhoto Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 My bold= Nobody is forcing them they do it out of choice to keep expenditure down meaning more money to send back home to family. ---------- Post added 25-04-2017 at 12:37 ---------- Wanting to give a unilateral guarantee to EU citizens without a reciprocal agreement for uk citizens living in the EU is a **** take IMO. When you look at the figures its all in our favour because we are taking on a huge burden. There are only 1.2m Brits living across the whole of Europe. Most of those will be business owners or retired expats etc. There are up to 4m EU citizens living in the UK. 1.5m of those are Polish and Romanian. Only 200,000 french. 150,000 Spanish etc How many of those are low skilled workers who need to be supported by our state system because wages are low but the cost of living is so high. Why should we put our cards on the table now.....the EU needs us to guarantee the rights of their citizens more than we needed them to guarantee ours. And we need to say that we cannot afford to carry anyone....if you cant afford to live in the UK without state support then you cannot afford to live in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puggie Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Yes, but with conditions that do not apply to UK citizens. This point is conveniently missed by most anti-immigration leave supporters. I won't go into that on this thread because the argument gets rather philosophical. But in a nutshell it's possible to create social injustice by the blind pursuit of equality. You get this in schools, in our criminal justice system, and in our welfare state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire 53 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Re. post 2093. I see that Mr.A. Sivanandam, whose foreword that is, ' Left Sri-Lanka during the 1958 riots against the Tamils'. That was a problem between two groups of the same race then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I won't go into that on this thread because the argument gets rather philosophical. But in a nutshell it's possible to create social injustice by the blind pursuit of equality. You get this in schools, in our criminal justice system, and in our welfare state. It only gets philosophical if you decide to take it that way. If someone is here solely for work then they could possibly be expected to take the risk. If your life (family and so on) is here then there should be options for those people to secure that status quickly and easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 June 8th 2017. If enough people vote Liberal Democrat then they will be the ruling party and have the power to block Brexit. Nice theory, but not really viable in practice. Most people in most places won't risk wasting their vote on Lib-Dem in case it lets the wrong lizard into power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkylinePhoto Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 It only gets philosophical if you decide to take it that way. If someone is here solely for work then they could possibly be expected to take the risk. If your life (family and so on) is here then there should be options for those people to secure that status quickly and easily. Ofcourse. Nothing in life is free so everyone should be expected to contribute. Getting UK nationals into low paid jobs should be the next massive priority after Brexit. Certain university courses should be subsidised by the government. No university fees for training doctors and nurses etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 When you look at the figures its all in our favour because we are taking on a huge burden. There are only 1.2m Brits living across the whole of Europe. Most of those will be business owners or retired expats etc. There are up to 4m EU citizens living in the UK. 1.5m of those are Polish and Romanian. Only 200,000 french. 150,000 Spanish etc How many of those are low skilled workers who need to be supported by our state system because wages are low but the cost of living is so high. Why should we put our cards on the table now.....the EU needs us to guarantee the rights of their citizens more than we needed them to guarantee ours. And we need to say that we cannot afford to carry anyone....if you cant afford to live in the UK without state support then you cannot afford to live in the UK. That's fine,just let all the migrants go back and leave the jobs they are doing,then let these businesses either fold,or raise their wages to get Brits off benefits and into those jobs.These businesses are already struggling to attract UK staff,which is why they employ migrants,now they will struggle even more because of Brexit,not guaranteeing the rights of those over here will finish a lot of businesses,so just go right ahead and start dismantling the economy,enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkylinePhoto Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 That's fine,just let all the migrants go back and leave the jobs they are doing,then let these businesses either fold,or raise their wages to get Brits off benefits and into those jobs.These businesses are already struggling to attract UK staff,which is why they employ migrants,now they will struggle even more because of Brexit,not guaranteeing the rights of those over here will finish a lot of businesses,so just go right ahead and start dismantling the economy,enjoy. How have you got any of that from what i have said. Can you take your anti-brexit glasses off for one minute and read what i put in the posts above. Ive stated that anyone who can afford to live in the UK should be allowed the live in the UK. If people cant afford to live on a minimum wage then we need to address it either with wage increases or a tax on companies to subsidise their work force. It should not be up to the state and tax payers to subsidise EU citizens when we have people on ebenefits doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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