The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

[I1L2T3]

Because we can hide behind an identity, personas that allow all manner of vulgarity (esp YouTube). People aren't answerable any longer.

 

People, e.g. politicians, are just saying what they want without regard to the consequences. They are not hiding. They are saying this stuff in public.

 

It's getting serious IMO. It poisoned both sides of the referendum campaign. And it shows no sign of stopping. Fallon's re-assignment of Trident as a first strike weapon was responded to by a Russian official publicly threatening to erase the UK off the face of the earth if we ever tried it.

[silentP]

People, e.g. politicians, are just saying what they want without regard to the consequences. They are not hiding. They are saying this stuff in public.

 

It's getting serious IMO. It poisoned both sides of the referendum campaign. And it shows no sign of stopping. Fallon's re-assignment of Trident as a first strike weapon was responded to by a Russian official publicly threatening to erase the UK off the face of the earth if we ever tried it.

 

I think they must totally overlook that they're messing with millions of lives that do not share their interest in dying. Scary when you have zero control over events that threaten humanity itself.

[apelike]

There's a fundamental point here and I think a big change that has happened in our society in the past decade.

 

People just seem emboldened to say whatever they want, no matter how unreasonable it is or even if they are breaking the law...

 

You mean like what you are now doing.

 

Howard threatening war on Spain.

 

Which is wrong because he didn't and hasn't.

 

Fallon threatening to use Trident as a first strike weapon.

 

Which is wrong because he didn't and hasn't.

 

The problem is all the time people misrepresent what has actually been said and replace it with misinformation and their made-up version it will never change.

 

Its like stating Lloyds have left when in fact they haven't.

[tinfoilhat]

Because we can hide behind an identity, personas that allow all manner of vulgarity (esp YouTube). People aren't answerable any longer.

 

That's true in many many ways. Politicians don't answer questions, it's always been thus, but nobody really pushed trump on any of his policies before the election. On the other hand Katy Hopkins isn't pillared, castigated and shunned for her poisonous views but given a column in a newspaper and a ****ing tv show! But, according to Stephen fry we have no right to be offended. Well I do!

 

As the human race plumbs ever greater depths, a man in Thailand killed his baby then himself and filmed it on Facebook live. Facebook have apologised. Probably with a couple of smiley face emojis. A few thousand people looked at it though before it was taken down - we haven't evolved really. I could go on and on. A global freak show.

[I1L2T3]

You mean like what you are now doing.

 

Which is wrong because he didn't and hasn't.

 

Which is wrong because he didn't and hasn't.

 

The problem is all the time people misrepresent what has actually been said and replace it with misinformation and their made-up version it will never change.

 

Its like stating Lloyds have left when in fact they haven't.

 

I've not said anything controversial. I'm very controlled, always try to be fair, and reserved with what I say. I'm just making a point about how people now seem emboldened to say things that were unthinkable just 10 years ago.

 

You've missed the point entirely and your blinkered tribalism has made you kind of automatically defend the indefensible. Howard did clearly threaten military action. As clear as day.

 

You need to read what Fallon said again.

[Anna B]

Labour has said what it's approach to Brexit will be, and I tend to agree with it. Put forward by Sir Keir Starmer MP - first time I've heard of him, but I thought he was quite impressive.

[tinfoilhat]

Labour has said what it's approach to Brexit will be, and I tend to agree with it. Put forward by Sir Keir Starmer MP - first time I've heard of him, but I thought he was quite impressive.

 

As I said in another thread, that could be a very public foot shooting exercise in traditional labour heartlands who voted brexit.

[apelike]

You've missed the point entirely and your blinkered tribalism has made you kind of automatically defend the indefensible. Howard did clearly threaten military action. As clear as day.

 

You need to read what Fallon said again.

 

Here are the 2 links I provide in another thread where you implied the same.

 

First what Michael Howard actually said:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gibraltar-michael-howard-got-to-war-with-spain-falklands-brexit-hilarious-never-going-to-happen-a7664536.html

 

As he plays no part of the government it does not matter much what he says. Bearing in mind that his comment has not been backed up and also laughed at by defence experts among others. Not forgetting also that this conflict would be between 2 NATO countries.

 

Second what Michael Fallon actually said. "In extreme circumstances you cant rule out the possibility of Nuclear weapons being used in a first strike."

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-nuclear-weapons-first-strike-michael-fallon-general-election-jeremy-corbyn-trident-a7698621.html

 

Now perhaps others listening to the above can see the difference between what you alleged they said and what the actually said.

[Anna B]

As I said in another thread, that could be a very public foot shooting exercise in traditional labour heartlands who voted brexit.

 

Maybe, but isn't that true of all the parties?

 

Is this election about policies or about Brexit? (again.)

[I1L2T3]

Here are the 2 links I provide in another thread where you implied the same.

 

First what Michael Howard actually said:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gibraltar-michael-howard-got-to-war-with-spain-falklands-brexit-hilarious-never-going-to-happen-a7664536.html

 

As he plays no part of the government it does not matter much what he says. Bearing in mind that his comment has not been backed up and also laughed at by defence experts among others. Not forgetting also that this conflict would be between 2 NATO countries.

 

Second what Michael Fallon actually said. "In extreme circumstances you cant rule out the possibility of Nuclear weapons being used in a first strike."

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-nuclear-weapons-first-strike-michael-fallon-general-election-jeremy-corbyn-trident-a7698621.html

 

Now perhaps others listening to the above can see the difference between what you alleged they said and what the actually said.

 

The point is that these are things that have never been said before, with a bullishness that has never been used before.

 

We have never threatened war against a continental neighbour in the EU. Dress it up all you want but that is what Howsrd alluded to. Yes he was stupid but my point is he wasn't scared to say it.

 

We have never had a situation where a Russian (or Soviet) official made a specific threat to wipe the UK - yes just specifically the UK - off the face of the planet. That was a direct response to what Fallon said. Dress it up all you want but he specifically provoked that reaction. His words caused it, nothing else.

 

My point still stands. People seem weirdly emboldened and some politicians aren't leading by example. And if you hadn't immediately jumped in to slavishly defend your Tory heroes you'd might have had more time to notice my criticism of both sides of the referendum campaign in this respect.