The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

[chalga]

I agree it's a bit charge of the light brigade but we're a tenacious race

 

Politics is interwoven with a lattice of deceit and untruths so there's always the chance. Whatever is decided I still see the UK making a serious go at success, it's how we are.

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2017 at 10:55 ----------

 

 

There are none that's what I mean. Why should we believe one over the other?

 

They aren't believing one over the other,they're believing what they think about Brexit as compared with what UK politicians are saying.How can they be believing the EU if you've just said that they haven't said nothing to believe or not?

[Hairyloon]

All elections are based on lies and bull****, that's what politics are about or do you believe all politicians speak the truth?

 

We don't have to accept that. You don't have to accept that...

 

Easily said, but how do we actually reject it?

 

Not through voting; in my constituency even if everybody consolidated for an "Anything but Labour" vote, Labour would probably still win.

 

Nationally I suspect the Conservatives will get even more seats with an even smaller slice of the votes... though I could be wrong, the electorate might be more riled about things than I expect them to be: I think most of them don't really care that much.

[Carlinate]

I agree it's a bit charge of the light brigade but we're a tenacious race

 

Politics is interwoven with a lattice of deceit and untruths so there's always the chance. Whatever is decided I still see the UK making a serious go at success, it's how we are.

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2017 at 10:55 ----------

 

 

 

Now you see that's what worries me about the Brexiteers, there's far too much " always a chance " and appeal to illogical jingoism going around.

 

Wishing and hoping that dreams will come true is a bit too much teenage fantasy for my liking.

 

Pragmatism, logic and reference to reality is what I like to base my views on.

 

Yes, I know that's a bit boring for all you swashbuckling Brexiteering dreamers, but real life does have a habit of crushing dreams that have no substance to justify them.

[chalga]

The issue has never been about particular ethnic groups. It has allot more to do with integration within communities and the lack of cultural assimilation within our societies. Broadly speaking we package all this in the term 'immigration'.

 

Again this is something the liberal elites fail to understand, once you take on a globalist view of the world where everyone is a global citizen operating in borderless environments, the very idea of a 'local community' becomes obsolete.

 

The issue of immigration statistics is where I start to part company with my fellow conservatives. I am not convinced that immigration is purely an issue of numbers. It's a much deeper social issue that will not resolve itself by counting heads.

 

What's that got to do with the EU?,there has been immigration for decades from everywhere in the world to the UK,most of it presided over by UK governments.Local communities have been changed by government policy over decades,especially housing/social policy and changing habits of people,there has always been communities of immigrants from wherever they came from,Brexit is not going to change that.

[silentP]

They aren't believing one over the other,they're believing what they think about Brexit as compared with what UK politicians are saying.How can they be believing the EU if you've just said that they haven't said nothing to believe or not?

 

But you are. You've supplied links and copy pastes of EU rhetoric that you believe outweighs anything coming from the UK. My question in its original form was why are their views more acceptable to you than the views of our own? Why should we as Leave give them more credence?

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2017 at 11:36 ----------

 

Now you see that's what worries me about the Brexiteers, there's far too much " always a chance " and appeal to illogical jingoism going around.

 

Wishing and hoping that dreams will come true is a bit too much teenage fantasy for my liking.

 

Pragmatism, logic and reference to reality is what I like to base my views on.

 

Yes, I know that's a bit boring for all you swashbuckling Brexiteering dreamers, but real life does have a habit of crushing dreams that have no substance to justify them.

 

I like your posts, you speak plain English

 

Countries have been built on dreams and chances, ideas and whims, our own industrial revolution for one. There weren't any blueprints. Swahbuckling or not, we as a kingdom have the desire the people and the will to succeed.

[I1L2T3]

I agree it's a bit charge of the light brigade but we're a tenacious race

 

Politics is interwoven with a lattice of deceit and untruths so there's always the chance. Whatever is decided I still see the UK making a serious go at success, it's how we are.

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2017 at 10:55 ----------

 

 

There are none that's what I mean. Why should we believe one over the other?

 

So you're relying on the British stiff upper lip to get through. That seems to imply things aren't terribly good in Brexit world.

[Cyclone]

There's 120 pages of evidence that shows that remain place more faith in what europe is saying than what our own politicians say

 

Are there any quotes from european politicians in this thread to back up what you're saying?

I've seen lots of quotes of EU laws and regulations, to refute the lies that the brexiteers spread, but not so much from politicians...

[I1L2T3]

The issue has never been about particular ethnic groups. It has allot more to do with integration within communities and the lack of cultural assimilation within our societies. Broadly speaking we package all this in the term 'immigration'.

 

Again this is something the liberal elites fail to understand, once you take on a globalist view of the world where everyone is a global citizen operating in borderless environments, the very idea of a 'local community' becomes obsolete.

 

The issue of immigration statistics is where I start to part company with my fellow conservatives. I am not convinced that immigration is purely an issue of numbers. It's a much deeper social issue that will not resolve itself by counting heads.

 

But then your Brexit leaders have been openly talking about more immigration from the Commonwealth, to replace EU immigration to an extent.

 

As for numbers, business gets what business wants. That is what caused May so many problems at the Home Office.

[chalga]

But you are. You've supplied links and copy pastes of EU rhetoric that you believe outweighs anything coming from the UK. My question in its original form was why are their views more acceptable to you than the views of our own? Why should we as Leave give them more credence?

 

What are you on about rhetoric?

That is their stated negotiating stance,and I haven't posted it as opposed to anything that UK politicians have said,I've posted it as an opposite view to what Brexiteers have said and the Right Wing Daily Rags,because it's those that are questioning and criticising the negotiating stance of Europe,mostly with nonsense.............it's up to UK politicians to counter what the EU are saying when talks begin.

[silentP]

So you're relying on the British stiff upper lip to get through. That seems to imply things aren't terribly good in Brexit world.

 

That's my point of view and we already know it isn't guided by politics. I don't profess to speak for all those other leave voters with a good deal more comprehension of all things worldly.

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2017 at 12:06 ----------

 

What are you on about rhetoric?

That is their stated negotiating stance,and I haven't posted it as opposed to anything that UK politicians have said,I've posted it as an opposite view to what Brexiteers have said and the Right Wing Daily Rags,because it's those that are questioning and criticising the negotiating stance of Europe,mostly with nonsense.............it's up to UK politicians to counter what the EU are saying when talks begin.

 

So why use links to promote the argument, speak as you see it, its not so easy to argue with the likes of presidents and priministers anyway. Aren't you just using the view of someone else to make a point. Use them as a reference if you (and I use the word You as a generalisation) must but we're not all that highly educated as to defend that position.