Hairyloon Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Courtesy of Brendan O'Neill. It seems he is an idiot. You should be cautious of parroting idiots, it makes you look like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Hard Brexit = Brexit; Soft Brexit = Not Brexit; Reversing Brexit = stopping democracy; Xenophobe = Anyone who disagrees with me; Racist = anyone who really disagrees with me; Fighting Fascism = Tweeting abuse at people who favour Brexit; Restoring sanity = Restoring the old establishment; Listen to the experts = Don't listen to the people; Liberal Democrat = illiberal anti-democratic. Courtesy of Brendan O'Neill. You're quoting a marxist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy? A shadowy global operation involving big data, billionaire friends of Trump and the disparate forces of the Leave campaign influenced the result of the EU referendum. As Britain heads to the polls again, is our electoral process still fit for purpose? discuss, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy? discuss, lol What is to say? We are basically screwed unless we can get on top of that issue. ---------- Post added 09-05-2017 at 12:48 ---------- You're quoting a marxist What is it with you and your ad hominems at the moment? Marx was not wrong about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 What is to say? We are basically screwed unless we can get on top of that issue. ---------- Post added 09-05-2017 at 12:48 ---------- What is it with you and your ad hominems at the moment? Marx was not wrong about everything. How was that an ad hominem? I'm just pointing out the source of the quote. Marxists of course have their own reasons for wanting to kill the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelFargate Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 You're quoting a marxist O'Neill is much too sophisticated and complex a thinker to be classified as an 'ist' of any kind. I would describe him as a libertarian iconoclast. He may well have been a 'Marxist' in his early career, but was never the dogmatic believer in the conventional tenets of orthodox Marxism (nor, for that matter, was Marx). His articles are always worth reading, because he offers insights and opinions on various topics which you will not find in most other media outlets.. ---------- Post added 09-05-2017 at 13:16 ---------- What is to say? We are basically screwed unless we can get on top of that issue. ---------- Post added 09-05-2017 at 12:48 ---------- What is it with you and your ad hominems at the moment? Marx was not wrong about everything. Yes, Marx was wrong about virtually everything. Not a single one of his predictions has come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentP Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I think that's a very good idea for all opinions. Being able to see things from a different perspective is hugely important. For Brexit, I do see the potential benefits for us going solo, I do see that the EU is a mess right now and seems to have little incentive for wholesale reform, I just never felt that the risk and reward stacked up in favour of leaving. The risk was too high and the reward too low. So I'm a remainer not because I *love* the EU, but simply because the alternative just didn't seem any better so why change? ? Good to hear some honesty. I've done more reading than I ever did before since squeezing my point of view on to this thread. My mind was made up annoyingly for some on feelings not printed 'facts'. It wasn't clouded by promises of money for the NHS neither was it influenced with closed borders. I've read alternative points of view and tried hard to seek out web pages that are unbiased and there aren't so many. I want the UK to stay as a group of four because it's a solid proven and unique relationship and I think it will, and I believe it will profit. I care not what Europe thinks of our choice to leave or indeed what they think of England. They know they have problems and are aware that it can go wrong, seriously wrong for them all. I think the UK has left at a good time and unlike Europe we will be stronger because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Good to hear some honesty. I've done more reading than I ever did before since squeezing my point of view on to this thread. My mind was made up annoyingly for some on feelings not printed 'facts'. It wasn't clouded by promises of money for the NHS neither was it influenced with closed borders. I've read alternative points of view and tried hard to seek out web pages that are unbiased and there aren't so many. I want the UK to stay as a group of four because it's a solid proven and unique relationship and I think it will, and I believe it will profit. I care not what Europe thinks of our choice to leave or indeed what they think of England. They know they have problems and are aware that it can go wrong, seriously wrong for them all. I think the UK has left at a good time and unlike Europe we will be stronger because of it. Id suggest the great majority of remain voters think the same way as sgt kate. Pre-ref the UK was effectivly in crap marriage with a gobby wife who spent too much. Not great but hte alternative is going to worse - ie expensive divorce, lose the house and only see the kids at weekends. You could use a protection racket analogy too I suppose. Ive got loads But the majority of remain voters rampent europhiles and federalists? Not by a mile. But, deep down, Im not sure how much europe liked us and vice versa before the referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 How was that an ad hominem? In effect, you are saying (or it appears so) that the argument is wrong because it comes from Marx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelFargate Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) Id suggest the great majority of remain voters think the same way as sgt kate. Pre-ref the UK was effectivly in crap marriage with a gobby wife who spent too much. Not great but hte alternative is going to worse - ie expensive divorce, lose the house and only see the kids at weekends. You could use a protection racket analogy too I suppose. Ive got loads But the majority of remain voters rampent europhiles and federalists? Not by a mile. But, deep down, Im not sure how much europe liked us and vice versa before the referendum. I think many remain voters have now accepted the fact that we are leaving the EU and that, on reflection, some of them think is no bad thing. I agree that the possible disruption caused by leaving was a key factor in the decision to vote remain, but if we had another vote today, I think that the remain vote would be substantially smaller than 48% If Brexit was a burning issue for most remain voters, then perhaps the Lib Dem votes in the recent elections and in recent polls would be much higher, as they have an anti-Brexit agenda. Edited May 9, 2017 by NigelFargate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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