The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

[Puggie]

Ok, gotcha now. We've been a royal pain haven't we. I get why people don't like us which is a shame, coz take away the stuffed shirts that almost run this country and we are really quite nice, amiable even.

 

Me too I'm proper nice

[L00b]

Politics at the highest level of government will trump clubhouse rules. When it comes to deadlines the only deadline that really matters are elections. When TM called for a GE she essentially manufactured a 5 year deadline for Brexit.

All TM did with her GE, is waste negotiation time. You have a common law mindset. Most of the EU member states are civil law jurisdictions and the TFEU (your 'clubhouse rules') is a piece of civil law: the rule is the rule, is the rule. And you'll be hard pressed to find another nation adhering to civil law in a stricter manner, than Germany, with France close behind. And the UK out works for them politically just fine.

 

If there's no deal by end March 2019, the UK is out on its ar5e without a deal, period. Nothing to stop negotiations continuing on, of course (with the EU in a still stronger position due to the UK being effectively out). But chaos in the UK all the same, Great Repeal Bill or not.

 

TM's got a bit less than two years to complete Brexit or trap door it, and the 3 year balance of her 2017 GE 'mandate' to sticky plaster the place until the Tories lose the next GE like they've never lost before.

Edited June 15, 2017 by L00b

[martin6]

It will be the EU that decide what the deadline is for Brexit.

 

As it stands it will be the end of March 2019. That can be extended but only if all 27 remaining members agree to it.

 

What many Brexiteers fail to understand is that the EU has the strongest hand and that we will only receive what they are prepared to give, we are in no position to demand anything.

 

Hopefully pragmatism will be employed and a reasonable compromise will be reached.

 

In order to achieve that however it will be necessary for our representatives to curtail their natural tendency to act like arrogant morons when in the company of Johnny Foreigner.

 

You have no faith in your country and your fellow countrymen. Please do us a favour.

[I1L2T3]

You have no faith in your country and your fellow countrymen. Please do us a favour.

 

No faith in the current government to negotiate a climbing frame at a toddler playground more like.

[hackey lad]

No faith in the current government to negotiate a climbing frame at a toddler playground more like.

 

but do you have faith in Jeremy and his band to negotiate a good deal for our country ?

[Carlinate]

You have no faith in your country and your fellow countrymen. Please do us a favour.

 

No faith?

 

Well let's see shall we?

 

In order to have faith in my fellow countrymen I would need to be convinced that when they voted to leave the EU they did so after considering the situation very carefully.

 

After all,it was a decision that was going to effect everyone for the forseeable future, and voting on a whim without facts to support your decision would be irresponsible and somewhat stupid wouldn't it?

 

Having faith in irresponsible and stupid people being able to recover from their own ill advised actions would be nonsensical wouldn't it?

 

So, in order to have some faith in them I would need to know the facts that they based their decision on.

 

I voted remain because of the following verifiable facts.

 

Despite it being far from perfect it is a fact that the EU is the most successful and wealthiest Trade Bloc in the World, and leaving such an organization to become a competitor seemed unwise.

 

Many people voted leave because they considered immigration a problem. Whilst immigration may or may not be a problem it is a fact that over 50% of immigration comes from outside the EU and is therefore nothing to do with them and is the direct responsibility of the UK government. Therefore using it as a reason to vote leave made no sense.

 

Others voted leave because they wanted to " take back control " . Since our involvement in Europe it is a fact that we have waged war with Argentina, Iraq and Afghanistan, we have bombed Libya and held a parliamentary debate as to whether to go to war with Syria. Additionally we have refused to adopt the Euro or sign up to Schengen, we are in partnership with a non EU country in a nuclear defence system and retain our connections to the Commonwealth.

I would like to know what specific thing it is that we need control over in order to justify causing the turmoil and loss of stability that we are about to experience.

 

Then there were the people like Ian Duncan Smith who kept warbling on about the 'opportunities' that we would have once we were freed from the shackles of the most successful Trade Bloc in the World.

This despite the fact that Germany,Italy,France and the Netherlands are all more successful than us at trade despite being members of the EU.

 

Now, in order for you to convince me that I should have faith in my fellow countrymen you need to provide me with alternative facts that negate the facts that I used in coming to my decision to vote remain.

 

Should you be unable to do that, then you are asking me to have blind faith, to believe that just because we're British all will be well.

 

To put my trust in people who have decided to vote to leave an organization that we joined when we were ' the sick man of Europe ' with a three day working week and general despondency the norm.

 

So, the floor is yours, tell me your facts, the ones that prove that we know what we're doing, and everything is going to turn out splendid.

 

Not interested in your opinions, simply the facts.

[Guest sibon]

but do you have faith in Jeremy and his band to negotiate a good deal for our country ?

 

Well, let's see. Kier Starmer or David Davies? Starmer wins that one, hands down.

 

A bloke who seems happy to talk to people, or a woman who seems to deliberately avoid speaking to them? I think I'd like my negotiators to have some people skills.

 

On balance, yes, I'll take Jezza over Theresa.

[I1L2T3]

but do you have faith in Jeremy and his band to negotiate a good deal for our country ?

 

Well let's face it they couldn't be any worse than the bunch of clowns May has assembled.

[Puggie]

I voted remain because of the following verifiable facts.

 

You're an outward-looking person who believes that we achieve greater things by working together, liberalising our politics and globalising our economy.

 

You don't have to justify your beliefs.

[silentP]

@Carlinate.. it's right what you say. You have all the facts to support your decision to go with remain. Everything points to the fact that staying with the EU is both sensible and sound. There are no facts to support leaving, those that were handed to us were sketchy and blurred, a little frayed around the edges, but there are no facts that what the EU offers NOW will remain workable or intact in the future.

Yes they'll do everything to try and keep it together but it isn't a fact that they will so it could be argued that 'remain' too would be basing their decision on an unknown future.

 

It's easy to follow a trend, a pattern because it's working at the moment. It's easy also to be oblivious of what's happening around you and simply assume that it is the better option without ever looking to change but some people will always veer off and take chances, risks.

Yes it's massive, of course it is, and yes it affects millions in this case but it's still worth it in their eyes no matter how stupid you and others might consider it.

 

It has already been said that the campaign was abysmal on both sides and that had it been run properly and everything explained properly there's a very good chance that remain would have had a landslide. Immigration was a headline long before the vote came about and was used heavily, incorrectly throughout. The meat heads that voted for this alone are a societal let down but it wasn't the reason we all voted leave.

 

No there are few if any facts to support leave but it's no lesser right for the choice to be made. This is my opinion and that's a fact