The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

[Carlinate]

Voters didn't know the difference between yes and no?

 

Explain the complexity.

 

Take a look at my post at 3192 on page 160 where I explain some of the reasons why I chose to vote remain.

 

Now tell me how many people that voted leave took into consideration those particular points, and how many simply voted on 'gut instinct' without consideration for what the consequences would be.

 

How many had any idea as to what it was going to entail?

 

I saw a man interviewed who intended to vote leave because of immigration. He didn't mind those coming in from the EU but didn't want all those Syrians and Iraqi's coming in. Clueless.

 

Read an interview with a Welsh steelworker who voted leave because the EU allowed cheap Chinese steel to flood the market and effect his livelihood, totally unaware that the EU tried to apply tariffs to Chinese steel and the British government vetoed it.

 

Asking Yes or No was the equivalent of asking "do you want to move to another country" Yes or No, without specifying which country.

 

Now, perhaps you'd like to have a go at providing me with the facts that you used to vote ( assuming you voted leave ) and see if they counter the facts I mentioned in post 3192.

 

Thus far no Brexiteer has managed to do so, and so it would appear that they find it a bit more complex than you appear to.

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 20:02 ----------

 

Because David Cameron promised: if they had gone back on that promise, it would have proven beyond question that politicians are not to be trusted...

 

You required that to happen before you understood that politicians are not to be trusted?

 

The referendum was advisory only, and if the politicians had any backbone and weren't more concerned with their own self interest than the welfare of the country they would have voted it down, and promised reform.

 

Edmund Burke the political philosopher stated that " Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgement; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion ".

 

It has to be that way, the politician is payed to inform himself/herself as to the facts of any debate and then vote according to what they genuinely feel is in the best interest of the country and their constituents.

 

As Cameron resigned on 13th July the month after the referendum it was no longer any concern of his anyway.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjWy7KhgsPUAhWsLcAKHZ_aDQoQFghAMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.businessinsider.com%2Fgreen-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-brexit-2016-6&usg=AFQjCNGyVpNtvCtEo-Wx-u98pzmOgCcYKw

[retep]

Take a look at my post at 3192 on page 160 where I explain some of the reasons why I chose to vote remain.

 

Now tell me how many people that voted leave took into consideration those particular points, and how many simply voted on 'gut instinct' without consideration for what the consequences would be.

 

How many had any idea as to what it was going to entail?

 

I saw a man interviewed who intended to vote leave because of immigration. He didn't mind those coming in from the EU but didn't want all those Syrians and Iraqi's coming in. Clueless.

 

Read an interview with a Welsh steelworker who voted leave because the EU allowed cheap Chinese steel to flood the market and effect his livelihood, totally unaware that the EU tried to apply tariffs to Chinese steel and the British government vetoed it.

 

Asking Yes or No was the equivalent of asking "do you want to move to another country" Yes or No, without specifying which country.

 

Now, perhaps you'd like to have a go at providing me with the facts that you used to vote ( assuming you voted leave ) and see if they counter the facts I mentioned in post 3192.

 

Thus far no Brexiteer has managed to do so, and so it would appear that they find it a bit more complex than you appear to.

 

There's nothing to counter the question was a simple yes or no, the noes have it get over it.

[Carlinate]

There's nothing to counter the question was a simple yes or no, the noes have it get over it.

 

 

 

Indulge those of us that believe the country has made the biggest mistake in its history, and is going into next weeks negotiations with second and third rate politicians who haven't a clue what they're doing.

 

Explain your thinking and how it's all going to turn out lovely.

 

Obviously, if you're unable to do so, using facts as opposed to opinion, then we would have to draw the conclusion that you haven't a clue either, and that you cast a vote on a momentous nation changing subject without applying any intelligence whatsoever.

 

There's a name for people who act without thinking, and never consider the consequences to themselves or anyone else.

 

It's not a pleasant one, but I'm sure it doesn't apply to you, because you will no doubt be able to reassure us as to how we have done the right thing and everything is going to turn out rosy.

 

Won't you?

[retep]

Indulge those of us that believe the country has made the biggest mistake in its history, and is going into next weeks negotiations with second and third rate politicians who haven't a clue what they're doing.

 

Explain your thinking and how it's all going to turn out lovely.

 

Obviously, if you're unable to do so, using facts as opposed to opinion, then we would have to draw the conclusion that you haven't a clue either, and that you cast a vote on a momentous nation changing subject without applying any intelligence whatsoever.

 

There's a name for people who act without thinking, and never consider the consequences to themselves or anyone else.

 

It's not a pleasant one, but I'm sure it doesn't apply to you, because you will no doubt be able to reassure us as to how we have done the right thing and everything is going to turn out rosy.

 

Won't you?

 

Yes............

 

unlike you who seems happy to have the country ruled by those who don't like us, never did, tried to keep the UK out in the first place, but saw the money they could extort, and plenty of useful idiots who were easily fooled, seems like some still are, are you one of those?

[Hairyloon]

You required that to happen before you understood that politicians are not to be trusted?

 

You miss the point: they would, in effect have had to stand up and own up to it.

[lottiecass]

I reckon we should have a referendum about whether or not we should have a referendum.

 

That way no one can complain...

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 18:52 ----------

 

[/COLO

But my parents voted to join and now their wishes are being ignored - so the lying started a long time ago.

Your parents didn't vote for a eu that we finished up with,no one knew it would end up like this that far back.

[apelike]

The referendum was advisory only,

 

Yes it was and because of that advise the government decided to act on it. Just because you dont like the outcome you seem to think that the advise should not have been acted upon. Advise as you know, may or may not be acted upon, and in this case it was acted upon.

 

Again I remind you of the governments remain position and that the leaflet sent to all households stated the position very clearly "The Government will implement what you decide."

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 22:56 ----------

 

Your parents didn't vote for a eu that we finished up with,no one knew it would end up like this that far back.

 

Very true and the final nail was the signing and ratification of the Maastricht Treaty, the one Treaty that cannot be altered by any sovereign country.

Edited June 16, 2017 by apelike

[Carlinate]

Yes............

 

unlike you who seems happy to have the country ruled by those who don't like us, never did, tried to keep the UK out in the first place, but saw the money they could extort, and plenty of useful idiots who were easily fooled, seems like some still are, are you one of those?

 

The country ruled by those who don't like us?

 

First of all the EU does not rule this country, or any of the other member countries, every one of them has a veto and can overrule any EU proposal.

 

The EU took ten years attempting to agree a trade deal with Canada, the majority of other countries in the EU wanted to accept it, but Romania, a country that has only been a member since 2007, vetoed the deal because it didn't like its visa arrangement with Canada.

 

You really don't understand the way the EU works do you?

 

The EU is its members, we are the EU.

 

As for not liking us, they appear to have more regard for us than Westminster. The EU wanted to bring in tariffs to protect the steel industry and Britain vetoed it in order to suck up to China and its investment potential for the City of London.

 

The people who don't have any regard for us in this part of the country are those in Westminster. All they care about is the South East and the City of London financial sector.

 

Brexiteers have placed us at the mercy of those people and we will pay the price.

 

Don't believe it?

 

Take a look at the former Chancellors father in laws view of people who don't live in the Home Counties.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjpu-HGtsPUAhXsKMAKHZVBBBAQFghCMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fgeorge-osbornes-father-in-law-repeats-his-frack-in-north-outburst-9368522.html&usg=AFQjCNGUR6-ee--UGBnp55rL5JB6ewEtEg

 

There are definitely people with nothing but contempt for people in this part of the country but they aren't from mainland Europe.

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 23:51 ----------

 

You miss the point: they would, in effect have had to stand up and own up to it.

 

No, they would simply have had to remind people that it was advisory, and that parliament is sovereign ( something that Brexiteers were worried about in a EU context ) and showed some balls.

 

As they haven't got any, we are where we are.

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 23:58 ----------

 

Yes it was and because of that advise the government decided to act on it. Just because you dont like the outcome you seem to think that the advise should not have been acted upon. Advise as you know, may or may not be acted upon, and in this case it was acted upon.

 

Again I remind you of the governments remain position and that the leaflet sent to all households stated the position very clearly "The Government will implement what you decide."

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 22:56 ----------

 

 

 

And I remind you that the majority of politicians elected to parliament were for Remain.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi_wK_QusPUAhXkAcAKHSulB4cQFgg0MAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946&usg=AFQjCNGQyDCQqiE132c_7--CFw8H_RZaiQ

 

Unfortunately self interest and their wish to keep receiving the salary, expenses and perks, was more important to them than their duty to the country.

[apelike]

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 23:58 ----------

 

And I remind you that the majority of politicians elected to parliament were for Remain.

 

That may be so but they carried out the Democratic wish of the majority of the people they represent, as they also did in 1975 when the vote was to stay.

 

From the Parliament UK website:

 

"The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons."

 

Whether the MP's own interests were for Remain does not matter in the overall scheme of things.

[Hairyloon]

It is so sad that so many do not understand the basic principles of representative democracy.