UK neoliberals score a hat-trick

[I1L2T3]

Don't you dare tell me what I know and don't know about social services. I have two relatives who are both service users, one of whom I am legal guardian for and has been a protected party all of his life.

 

I speak to people in social services on a weekly basis, I attend carer forums, I know several people who work for learning disability services and before I completed my studies and started working full time I used to assist running summer play schemes and worked with Mencap.

 

My opinion is just valid as much as anyone else.

 

Don't start arrogantly pretending you know all about me just because I have a different stance to others. This is a discussion forum and this is a debate. It might shock you to realise that just because some people are users or even workers of a service that doesn't mean that they think it's beyond criticism nor think that the entire failure sits with the current government - a position which unfortunately is played by far too many people on this forum

 

What gives you the right to even think about calling me every name under the sun?

 

I'm never going to deny that there are problems but I ask again when hasn't there been. Horror stories of people being neglected in care come along all the time. There is a history of it. There has been care home scandals before and there is very likely to be more in the future.

 

NHS scandals have happened before and though I hate to say it there will be some more in the future.

 

I feel the way I do about your post because it is ignorant of reality. It really is as simple as that.

 

I'm aware of your status as you have described it before and to me that makes things even worse. You're an apologist for the government and the mess it is creating and it seems to be you use your status as a shield. You ignore everything everybody else states because it doesn't suit your agenda. Things can't possibly be worse because you haven't seen it. I have!! My wife has just come in from work an hour ago and told me what she has been through today, she's still on call tonight and she could have to go back any time. She's had a day from hell. The staff situation is the worst it has ever been.

 

You'll get the thick end of it all sooner or later.

[ECCOnoob]

You just told me you'd not spoken to anybody who works in social care recently.

 

Social care no . learning dis service yes central transport yes leasehold services yes corporate finance yes.

 

Would it make a different to your unnecessarily rude post I had spoken to that specific team anyway. You clearly made your judgement on me and clearly decided I knew nothing so what's it matter.

 

---------- Post added 02-04-2017 at 21:07 ----------

 

I feel the way I do about your post because it is ignorant of reality. It really is as simple as that.

 

I'm aware of your status as you have described it before and to me that makes things even worse. You're an apologist for the government and the mess it is creating and it seems to be you use your status as a shield. You ignore everything everybody else states because it doesn't suit your agenda. Things can't possibly be worse because you haven't seen it. I have!! My wife has just come in from work an hour ago and told me what she has been through today, she's still on call tonight and she could have to go back any time. She's had a day from hell. The staff situation is the worst it has ever been.

 

You'll get the thick end of it all sooner or later.

 

I disagree. I am certainly not an apologist but I consider myself a realist.

 

These particular civil service organisations have always had problems. They are always the ones who demand more and more money year on year. That eventually has a breaking point.

 

I am not saying that the government is blameless in this. There are definitely things that need to be done however I will never ever agree that the fault lies solely with the current government.

 

You say I ignore things that don't suit my agenda but what about some of the Rose tinted opinions all over this forum. Why is it that its always the evil Conservatives taking the criticism. Its never labour's fault. Its happened every time a Tory government gets into power before and its happening right now within this one. All failures in the civil service suddenly emerge and the left wing press and their Union stirrers fuel the fire as if nothing ever went wrong when the other side was in charge.

 

I am not denying problems and i have sympathy for your wife who is working and dealing with such issues. However I maintain that this is not a new thing. It is not a simple as "it's the worst it has ever been". I simply do not believe that.

 

There have been periods like this before and they will be some like this in the future

 

---------- Post added 02-04-2017 at 21:12 ----------

 

I feel the way I do about your post because it is ignorant of reality. It really is as simple as that.

 

I'm aware of your status as you have described it before and to me that makes things even worse. You're an apologist for the government and the mess it is creating and it seems to be you use your status as a shield. You ignore everything everybody else states because it doesn't suit your agenda. Things can't possibly be worse because you haven't seen it. I have!! My wife has just come in from work an hour ago and told me what she has been through today, she's still on call tonight and she could have to go back any time. She's had a day from hell. The staff situation is the worst it has ever been.

 

You'll get the thick end of it all sooner or later.

 

I disagree. I am certainly not an apologist but I consider myself a realist.

 

These particular civil service organisations have always had problems. They are always the ones who demand more and more money year on year. That eventually has a breaking point.

 

I am not saying that the government is blameless in this. There are definitely things that need to be done however I will never ever agree that the fault lies solely with the current government.

 

You say I ignore things that don't suit my agenda but what about some of the Rose tinted opinions all over this forum. Why is it that its always the evil Conservatives taking the criticism. Its never labour's fault. Its happened every time a Tory government gets into power before and its happening right now within this one. All failures in the civil service suddenly emerge and the left wing press and their Union stirrers fuel the fire as if nothing ever went wrong when the other side was in charge.

 

I am not denying problems sympathy for your wife who is working and dealing with such issues. However I maintain that this is not a new thing. It is not a simple as "it's the worst it has ever been". I simply do not believe that.

 

There have been periods like this before and they will be some like this in the future

Edited April 2, 2017 by ECCOnoob

[JNewton69]

Social care no . learning dis service yes central transport yes leasehold services yes corporate finance yes.

 

Would it make a different to your unnecessarily rude post I had spoken to that specific team anyway. You clearly made your judgement on me and clearly decided I knew nothing so what's it matter.

 

I wouldn't call being inquisitive rude.

[Staunton]

Yawn.

 

When have they not been "in crisis" or "on the brink of collapse" or "massively underfunded" or "totally neglected" or "destined to fail" or "facing closure"

 

Been that way since gods dog was a puppy thanks to an obsessive an sensationalist Media agenda doing it because they know it makes headlines and sells their product.

 

It must be a miracle that despite all the multiple whines of being in crisis over the decades they are all still functioning.

 

There we are: supporters of neoliberalism cannot even stifle a yawn or suppress a sneer when it comes to the theme of the destruction of essential services that we ordinary people depend upon.

 

Neoliberalism is about three things, dismantling the public sector (e.g. by draining funding), privatising public services (e.g. handing over service provision to contractors whose chief motive is profit) and deregulation (e.g. shrinking and disempowering vital agencies such as the Care Quality Commission, the Ombudsman service, HM Revenue and Customs), the last permitting the continuing scandal of tax avoidance at a vast scale.

 

There would be adequate funding for our hospitals, our care for vulnerable citizens and schools for our children if a robust tax system was put in place. But instead the financial scandal of 2007 was used instrumentally as a cover for an ideologically motivated austerity policy designed to destroy public services and enrich the already wealthy and powerful.

[silentP]

Lower infant mortality at one end, longevity at the other coupled with sickness and care, obesity, alcoholism, poor diet, sedentary lifestyles, growing population, higher expectations of what the service delivers and sheer weight of numbers coming through the doors are all a major concern and throwing money at the NHS will not make these problems disappear.

[I1L2T3]

Lower infant mortality at one end, longevity at the other coupled with sickness and care, obesity, alcoholism, poor diet, sedentary lifestyles, growing population, higher expectations of what the service delivers and sheer weight of numbers coming through the doors are all a major concern and throwing money at the NHS will not make these problems disappear.

 

True to a point but systematically starving services of funds will not improve things either.

 

Yours is a lazy argument that can (and is) used to defend any problems caused by deliberate underfunding.

 

Maybe one day while your lying in your own excrement one week away from death while a busybody from the council is interviewing you over your finances to means test your woefully inadequate care then it'll hit home. This is what happened to my dad, and it's why every time somebody like Ecconoob tries to pretend everything is OK I'm going to get on their case.

[silentP]

@I1l2t3, I'm not denying they need funding only adding that it only part solves a wider range of issues and if we are to believe they are on the increase then the funding will also need to match this increase. Something, somewhere along the line as already said will have to give. I don't know the answer, drastic reform, you have part of the solution.

Either way I already dread getting old so your scenario wasn't needed. I work in and around A&E so I have seen first hand what possibilities lay ahead of me, it isn't pretty but it is frightening.

[tinfoilhat]

True to a point but systematically starving services of funds will not improve things either.

 

Yours is a lazy argument that can (and is) used to defend any problems caused by deliberate underfunding.

 

Maybe one day while your lying in your own excrement one week away from death while a busybody from the council is interviewing you over your finances to means test your woefully inadequate care then it'll hit home. This is what happened to my dad, and it's why every time somebody like Ecconoob tries to pretend everything is OK I'm going to get on their case.

 

I've been in your shoes - it's not a nice place to be in. But the level of funding, particularly in social care would need to two or three times the budget it's got now. And, as desperately sad as it is, I'm not sure your father would have been much better off - mine wouldn't have been and we chucked loads of money at the very best care home we could afford.

 

It's a situation where I don't see many answers - I'm buggering off to dignitas when the time comes.

[Anna B]

There we are: supporters of neoliberalism cannot even stifle a yawn or suppress a sneer when it comes to the theme of the destruction of essential services that we ordinary people depend upon.

 

Neoliberalism is about three things, dismantling the public sector (e.g. by draining funding), privatising public services (e.g. handing over service provision to contractors whose chief motive is profit) and deregulation (e.g. shrinking and disempowering vital agencies such as the Care Quality Commission, the Ombudsman service, HM Revenue and Customs), the last permitting the continuing scandal of tax avoidance at a vast scale.

 

There would be adequate funding for our hospitals, our care for vulnerable citizens and schools for our children if a robust tax system was put in place. But instead the financial scandal of 2007 was used instrumentally as a cover for an ideologically motivated austerity policy designed to destroy public services and enrich the already wealthy and powerful.

 

Excellent post. Nail on head.

 

What I can't understand is why many people can't see it and try to defend the indefensible.

[NigelFargate]

The neoliberal project has achieved a hat-trick: the National Health Service, social care and state education are all now in crisis!

 

They would be in crisis anyway (particularly the first two) as a result of increasing demand, due to a rising, ageing population.