Parking wars on my road help

[sgtkate]

What if the house has a garage in which a car may lurk undetected ?

 

It's only an obstruction if you are obstructing, so if you parked across a garage you'd only be causing an obstruction if the owner of the vehicle wanted to get his car out of the garage, at which point you'd either need to move your car or risk getting towed by the police. None of this is rocket science guys...the only confusion is around whether there is a dropped kerb or not, and I'm saying that it doesn't matter, that if you cause an obstruction to someone wanting to get to the highway then whether there's a dropped kerb has no bearing on that, but hopefully the guy driving illegal over the pavement will also get a nice bill from the council to fix the damage to the pavement.

[Justin Smith]

It's only an obstruction if you are obstructing, so if you parked across a garage you'd only be causing an obstruction if the owner of the vehicle wanted to get his car out of the garage, at which point you'd either need to move your car or risk getting towed by the police. None of this is rocket science guys...the only confusion is around whether there is a dropped kerb or not, and I'm saying that it doesn't matter, that if you cause an obstruction to someone wanting to get to the highway then whether there's a dropped kerb has no bearing on that, but hopefully the guy driving illegal over the pavement will also get a nice bill from the council to fix the damage to the pavement.

 

Sorry, possibly a breakdown in communication. I just wanted to clarify the fact that if one parks across an empty driveway but with a garage behind it, one may still be liable to prosecution for obstruction. Theoretically anyway, how much the police would actually do is debatable. The police can issue parking tickets though can`t they ?

Of relevance to this thread is this one (particularly if you`ve got a flight to catch....) :

What would you do ? : unknown car across your drive at 7.00AM

[sgtkate]

Sorry, possibly a breakdown in communication. I just wanted to clarify the fact that if one parks across an empty driveway but with a garage behind it, one may still be liable to prosecution for obstruction. Theoretically anyway, how much the police would actually do is debatable. The police can issue parking tickets though can`t they ?

Of relevance to this thread is this one (particularly if you`ve got a flight to catch....) :

What would you do ? : unknown car across your drive at 7.00AM

 

If I had a flight to get to then I'm afraid I'd be waking my neighbours up asking them to move the car, and if none of them knew anything about it then car would get rammed out of the way if I wasn't able to move it using the trolley jack method. They'd have to prove I damaged it with intent. Or hopefully phoning the police saying they had 30 mins to get it moved before I hit it out of the way might speed the coppers up.

[Cyclone]

Ignoring some of the usual suspect who prefer to attack the poster rather than answer the question. It is illegal to block a car from entering the highway, whether they have a dropped kerb on not, so if the guy has parked his car on his drive and you block him in you have broken the law and he can call the police out who may tow you and then charge you for it. However, if his car is not in his drive, or you leave enough room for him to get out past you, you can park where you want.

 

In theory he is breaking the law by driving over a pavement without a dropped kerb. The council don't like people doing this at all so if you contacted them they are likely to enforce the addition of a dropped kerb. He may also be in breach of planning laws as you aren't allowed to just add a driveway, there is drainage and other things to be considered. However, if your parking problem is bad and he now has space for a car off road then he might be helping the parking situation!

 

So, if his car isn't the drive you can block it. If the car is in the drive you cannot.

 

---------- Post added 11-04-2017 at 09:38 ----------

 

 

This isn't correct. It is illegal to block someone's access to the public highway whether they have a dropped kerb or not.

 

Is that right? I was under the impression they had to have a right of access in the first place.

 

---------- Post added 11-04-2017 at 18:21 ----------

 

The police are actually pretty helpful in my experience regarding the drive blocked issue.

They've tracked down and phoned owners several times when I've been blocked out.

And ticketed and offered to tow a car when I was blocked in and they couldn't contact the owner. (I said leave it until the morning as I didn't need the car immediately, by which point it was gone, with it's ticket).

[tinfoilhat]

Is that right? I was under the impression they had to have a right of access in the first place.

 

---------- Post added 11-04-2017 at 18:21 ----------

 

The police are actually pretty helpful in my experience regarding the drive blocked issue.

They've tracked down and phoned owners several times when I've been blocked out.

And ticketed and offered to tow a car when I was blocked in and they couldn't contact the owner. (I said leave it until the morning as I didn't need the car immediately, by which point it was gone, with it's ticket).

 

I caught one those fly on the wall cop shows ages ago (Night police cop interceptors or summat) and a young lady had her drive blocked in by a parked car (sort of). They didnt tow it, issue a ticket or try and shift it. They did - and heres where my memory is a little hazy - either guided her out or drove it out for her and that was after a bit of tooing and froing. They werent interested in doing much to the car blocking her in intitally which was taxed and insured.

[Cyclone]

When I lived in Walkley I called 2202020 about once every 3 months to report a car blocking my drive. They were helpful every time, and as I said ticketed a car once as they couldn't locate the owner.

They also got a skip shifted that a helpful neighbour had told them to leave there. The skip company initially told me that as it was Friday evening they couldn't move it until Monday. After the police spoke to them they miraculously managed to shift it at 1900 that evening.

 

The parking was one of the contributing factors to moving, and I was one of the few who had a drive. Too many ignorant people willing to block it though, whether the car was in or out.

[sgtkate]

Is that right? I was under the impression they had to have a right of access in the first place.

 

I'm not sure, I was fairly sure when I posted but so many others on here seem to disagree. I would be nice to get some clarity just to wrap up the thread! I've tried finding an official answer but can only find other people having the exact same discussion as we are on other forums.

[Cyclone]

Causing Obstruction

 

Cause unnecessary obstruction by motor vehicle - Contrary to regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

 

Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 creates the offence of unnecessary obstruction.

 

103. No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction.

 

Removal

 

Removal and Disposal of Vehicles Regulations 1986 provide for the removal and disposal of broken down, illegally parked or abandoned vehicles. To get your vehicle towed away in some cases which means the owner will have to pay the recovery costs to get the car back.

 

That seems to be the legislation that is applied.

 

This might be the latest relevant ruling

 

Hertfordshire County Council v Bolden 1987

 

If you unnecessarily impede the normal passage of road users, you are likely to be prosecuted for one of the obstruction offences. The unnecessary impeding of someones right to use their private drive, especially one with dropped kerbs etc, will undoubtedly lead to a ticket for unnecessary obstruction if you refuse to move it or can't be found.

 

Without a dropped kerb though they don't have a private drive, they have a front garden, and they should have no reasonable expectation of access to or from that space, because said access with a vehicle would involve them breaking the law. No reasonable person would expect their neighbours to be breaking the law and so you wouldn't be causing an obstruction.

I doubt it's ever been tested in court.

[sgtkate]

That seems to be the legislation that is applied.

 

This might be the latest relevant ruling

 

Hertfordshire County Council v Bolden 1987

 

 

 

Without a dropped kerb though they don't have a private drive, they have a front garden, and they should have no reasonable expectation of access to or from that space, because said access with a vehicle would involve them breaking the law. No reasonable person would expect their neighbours to be breaking the law and so you wouldn't be causing an obstruction.

I doubt it's ever been tested in court.

 

It stated:

If you unnecessarily impede the normal passage of road users, you are likely to be prosecuted for one of the obstruction offences. The unnecessary impeding of someones right to use their private drive, especially one with dropped kerbs etc, will undoubtedly lead to a ticket for unnecessary obstruction if you refuse to move it or can't be found.

 

Why would it say 'especially' if drive without dropped kerbs were excluded? And we are back to semantics again. However, I do agree with the analysis that unlikely anyone would ever get prosecuted for it as you wouldn't think you were causing an obstruction, but you would be so does the owner of the non-dropped kerb drive have a legal right to have your car moved at your expense? Interesting.

[Cyclone]

That's a statement from a police officer on some police officer forum, not law.

 

Personally I find it difficult to reconcile having a right to access which in itself requires the law to be broken, in that circumstance I think that they don't have the right to access because they don't have the right to drive over the pavement, so no legal obstruction can occur (although a practical one clearly can).

 

Edit - I'm not sure that the obstructed EVER has the right to move the car themselves, but if they do so then I can't see how they could pass the cost on... They'd have to sue for damages caused (the cost) resulting from the obstruction... Perhaps a magistrate would agree, I'm not sure. Having the police remove it would be much more sensible for the obstructed.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Cyclone